If you have some talent, any race 8k or under you can run very competitively off 35-40 miles a wk and 2 workouts per week. Change my mind.
If you have some talent, any race 8k or under you can run very competitively off 35-40 miles a wk and 2 workouts per week. Change my mind.
Sure, you can run "well" off of that but you won't reach your full potential.
snow blow wrote:
Sure, you can run "well" off of that but you won't reach your full potential.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, current PR's + more miles != faster PR's
Mileage only helps if all goes right, i.e. your body can handle the mileage (proper mechanics), your work life allows for the mileage (you don't burn out), and you don't forget that V02 max and speed are still just as important if not more important than mileage.
More miles = more mitochondria = bigger engine
Which generally means faster running.
NeedSomeTalent wrote:
Mileage only helps if all goes right, i.e. your body can handle the mileage (proper mechanics), your work life allows for the mileage (you don't burn out), and you don't forget that V02 max and speed are still just as important if not more important than mileage.
Actually, none of that is obviously true. If you've plateaued on low mileage, the single easiest thing to try is running more miles. You don't need "everything to go right" on one more easy run per week, and nothing is less likely to lead to injury. It's way easier to fit in an extra mile or two each day than it is to fit in an extra workout per week. And training approaches are about evenly split between energy-system based and pace-based; maybe training v02max really isn't that important.
Some people can run well off 35-40 miles/week, and for some of them, that's the most miles they can handle and how they'll run their best. These athletes don't seem to be anywhere close to a majority, though, so I wouldn't say that "you" in general will run well off that mileage. Lots of people will be perfectly happy at that mileage, just like lots of people are perfectly happy with a 25:00 5K time. People who are interested in getting closer to their potential will mostly not be satisfied for long.
mind blown wrote:
Actually, none of that is obviously true. If you've plateaued on low mileage, the single easiest thing to try is running more miles. You don't need "everything to go right" on one more easy run per week, and nothing is less likely to lead to injury. It's way easier to fit in an extra mile or two each day than it is to fit in an extra workout per week. And training approaches are about evenly split between energy-system based and pace-based; maybe training v02max really isn't that important.
Some people can run well off 35-40 miles/week, and for some of them, that's the most miles they can handle and how they'll run their best. These athletes don't seem to be anywhere close to a majority, though, so I wouldn't say that "you" in general will run well off that mileage. Lots of people will be perfectly happy at that mileage, just like lots of people are perfectly happy with a 25:00 5K time. People who are interested in getting closer to their potential will mostly not be satisfied for long.
This is a totally fair point. I'm probably just one of those people who can't handle more than 50ish miles/wk due to imperfect mechanics, so 35-40 and 5-6 days/wk is my sweet spot. My PRs are 9:01/15:49 3k/5k for reference. Not great, but not a 25 min 5k.
Said by the guy who runs 26 minutes. Nobody is running 23:30 on 40 mpw. Poll 1000 college guys and you will see a direct correlation between the number of miles run and the times run.
Slow Pokes don't count wrote:
Said by the guy who runs 26 minutes. Nobody is running 23:30 on 40 mpw. Poll 1000 college guys and you will see a direct correlation between the number of miles run and the times run.
Nope, actually ran 9:01 in the 3k and 15:49 in the 5k off 40-50 miles/wk in college. Still running 35-40 now and running road 5ks in the 16:30s.
mind blown wrote:
[quote]NeedSomeTalent wrote:
Some people can run well off 35-40 miles/week, and for some of them, that's the most miles they can handle and how they'll run their best. These athletes don't seem to be anywhere close to a majority, though, so I wouldn't say that "you" in general will run well off that mileage. Lots of people will be perfectly happy at that mileage, just like lots of people are perfectly happy with a 25:00 5K time. People who are interested in getting closer to their potential will mostly not be satisfied for long.
If think that anyone not running more than 40M per week is running 25 min 5ks, you really need to talk to more runners. The world is FULL of guys running quite well off of what the OP described. I bet that most HS kids, even the Footlocker finalist and such aren't running much more than that. Sure you'll have the Riz types are log big miles in HS, but I'd wager that they are the outlier.
In college, I averaged about 40-45 mi/week w/ 2 workouts and ran 1:55/3:59 for 800/1500 + 25:40 8k in XC. Not great, but not bad either. In my mid-30s, I picked up running again and have run a 16:03 5k, 1:14 half marathon, and 2:48 marathon off 35-45 mi/week w/ 1-2 workouts. Obviously, my marathon suffers most at lower mileage, but 5k-half I think are doable. I'd like to run sub-16 and sub-2:40 before I turn 40 though, so I am planning to bump up to 50-60 next summer and see what I can do.
I've changed to running interval everyday on 40 mpw for the past 2 months and every race is a PB. Previous running was 60 mpw with lots of easy running and 2 workouts. I agree that mileage isnt everything.
These are always tricky questions, and they often lead to interesting discussions. I can only add my own perspective. If I'm running two hard sessions a week and getting 30-some miles in, I often get decent results.
But if I'm only running one hard session a week but get in 50-some miles, I feel much, much better and I'm also faster. I certainly wouldn't say this way is better just because it works better for me (and I happen to like it better). But have you experimented with more miles and less fast stuff?
Eilish McColgan ran a 14:50 5k and isn't running more than 50 miles a week (with some cross training).
NeedSomeTalent wrote:
If you have some talent, any race 8k or under you can run very competitively off 35-40 miles a wk and 2 workouts per week. Change my mind.
Depends what you mean by "very competitively". In D1 XC, I think there actually are a few women at the top level of the 6k on only 40mpw, but only because they get injured at anything higher. For the men, nope in XC, and probably nope in the 5k. 1500 maybe, but it must be very rare anyone makes d1 5k finals on under 50mpw. Didn't Justyn Knight run only like 50mpw for his first year or two of college?
In other words if you are a huge talent maybe you can be somewhat competitive in the 5k on 40mpw (more likely for women) but only if you get injured really easily or you're not achieving your potential.
NeedSomeTalent wrote:
Slow Pokes don't count wrote:
Said by the guy who runs 26 minutes. Nobody is running 23:30 on 40 mpw. Poll 1000 college guys and you will see a direct correlation between the number of miles run and the times run.
Nope, actually ran 9:01 in the 3k and 15:49 in the 5k off 40-50 miles/wk in college. Still running 35-40 now and running road 5ks in the 16:30s.
Well there you have it, you're running about ten fewer miles per week now and your 5k times have slowed by 40 seconds.
If you're in your mid 30's or younger there's still time to blow away those PRs from college if you're willing to up your mileage to 60 or more while keeping the workouts.
Also, the other poster was talking about 8k times.
quickndirty wrote:
mind blown wrote:
[quote]NeedSomeTalent wrote:
Some people can run well off 35-40 miles/week, and for some of them, that's the most miles they can handle and how they'll run their best. These athletes don't seem to be anywhere close to a majority, though, so I wouldn't say that "you" in general will run well off that mileage. Lots of people will be perfectly happy at that mileage, just like lots of people are perfectly happy with a 25:00 5K time. People who are interested in getting closer to their potential will mostly not be satisfied for long.
If think that anyone not running more than 40M per week is running 25 min 5ks, you really need to talk to more runners. The world is FULL of guys running quite well off of what the OP described. I bet that most HS kids, even the Footlocker finalist and such aren't running much more than that. Sure you'll have the Riz types are log big miles in HS, but I'd wager that they are the outlier.
The world is full of runners capable of running very high weekly mileage, but only a few of them can run really fast in a race.
You may not like anecdotal evidence but Karissa was fully mature in 2011. She would have been an average 17:30 college runner had she gone to some D3 school where she would have remained at 40MPW. Instead, she is a world class runner.
Karissa Schweizer
2011 - 30MPW 19:00
2012 - 35MPW 18:40
2013 - 40MPW 17:50
2014 - 45MPW 17:20
2015 - 50MPW 16:30
2016 - 60MPW 15:58
2017 - 65MPW 15:19
2018 - 75MPW 15:17
NeedSomeTalent wrote:
snow blow wrote:
Sure, you can run "well" off of that but you won't reach your full potential.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, current PR's + more miles != faster PR's
Mileage only helps if all goes right, i.e. your body can handle the mileage (proper mechanics), your work life allows for the mileage (you don't burn out), and you don't forget that V02 max and speed are still just as important if not more important than mileage.
The same is true for any amount of training so you are not saying anything that isn't known. But, there is only one way to know if your body can handle higher mileage.
NeedSomeTalent wrote:
If you have some talent, any race 8k or under you can run very competitively off 35-40 miles a wk and 2 workouts per week. Change my mind.
Actually even less.
I know fast talented people who run 20-30mpw but sure, it's a very unpopular thing to say on LRC.
They would run faster with more mileage? Maybe but they have busy lives and don't give a f*ck.
NeedSomeTalent wrote:
If you have some talent, any race 8k or under you can run very competitively off 35-40 miles a wk and 2 workouts per week. Change my mind.
Lots of science suggests you’re right. Whereas very little science proves you wrong. All the way up to the half.