1:25 for Half - 3:30+ for Marathon

You're training too fast.

Try running all but 2 days a week at 60% mhr.

Check out the Hadd threads in letsrun archives.

I run 1:35 & 3:20ish.

The man is right slow down.

60% might be too slow but you get the idea.

Check Hadd he is the expert.

Most days I run 8:00's (say 35 mpw), other days I will go 7:00-7:15's (say 15 mpw).

You guys are saying this is too fast??

Only way I could see this is if you aren't getting in enough long runs. They are the essential element. They need to build up to be on the order of 2.5 - 3 hrs or 20 miles at Projected Marathon Pace + 1-1.5 min/mi. You just need the endurance and enough carbos and water during the race to make the distance and you should be around 3hrs.

15 miles doesn't get deep enough into your glycogen stores to require your body to adapt to depletion and increase the efficiency of its energy utilization. The longer runs will train the body to burn a higher ratio of fat to glycogen to conserve glycogen as well as teach it to store more glycogen in total. Furthermore, bump up that milage a bit. Just a little more effort and you will be flying.

By my calculation you run 35mpw(about 2/3rds of your training)at Or near current Marathon race pace.In fact if you ran a Marathon at this pace you would crack 3:30.

26.2miles x 8 minutes per mile = 209.6 minutes =3.49hrs = 3hrs 29.5m.

Maybe think: Run to my current ability and not to my potential.That way you will reach your potential and it will be good.

Yup. Too fast.

Most running should be 75-90 secs slower than marathon pace, so 8.00's are wayyy too fast for you. Slow up. Go further.

With 1:25 half speed a 3:30 indicates some sort of breakdown since I cannot imagine that you started at 8:30 pace. What kind of breakdown are you having? Do you:

1. Lose gas? / bonk

2. Leg cramps?

3. Experience a sensation of increasing level of exersion yet pace is going down?

#1 and #3 have some well known remedies. #2 you are hosed.

I meant 8:00 pace.

sundog wrote:

1. Lose gas? / bonk

2. Leg cramps?

3. Experience a sensation of increasing level of exersion yet pace is going down?

.

I have experienced all of the above, altough no leg cramps, just muscle fatigue (calfs).

You are running (all of the below):

a)too little- around 50m/w

b) too fast on regular easy runs for your current ability

c)without enough variety- only in the range of 1min. You need to run slowlier and faster as well.

Put in at least 50% more miles and change the above mentioned. you'll be fine.

Agree.

thanks for the advice, I will implement these suggestions for my fall marathon

I've got a little slower half time and a 3:10 marathon best and feel like i need to get down to 3hours.

Here's what helped me in preparation:

a) 60 to 70 miles a week.

b) 2.5 hour weekend run, 90 minute uptempo run during the week, mile repeats (4 to 6) in the 6:15 range.

c) another solid 60 to 75 run per week. no watch, no sense of mileage. find a groove type of run.

d) the rest of the miles are recovery oriented and about 9 minute miles.

e) About a month before the race enter a half marathon and run exactly at your goal marathon pace. If you're in shape you'll feel like this is a breeze. This gave me a lot of confidence going to my goal marathon.

Here's what helped me on marathon day:

a) target a favorable course. do not pick New York and then get angry because of crowds, long waits, and bridges. You know that before you get there.

b) run at or slower than projected marathon pace for the first 2-3 miles. don't slalom through the crowd. conserve all the energy you can.

I think it's simple. You need more weekly mileage. At least 60-70 mpw and you should be in the low 3's. Maybe even sub 3. Two years ago on 65 mpw I ran halfs around 1:30 and ran a 3:10 marathon. This year I ran 2 halfs, 1:26and !:25 respectively and plan on a sub 3 this fall if all goes well. I'm running 70 mpw now.

I'm guessing that the original poster is young while I'm in my 50's but between injuries (or injury prevention) and other commitments, I'm lucky to get two weeks over 50 miles in my marathon training cycle, the rest are between 40 and 50. My half-marathons are usually 1:29-1:31 and marathons are 3:15-3:20 depending on the course, weather, and how I feel. I'd love to run 70-75/week and see what that would mean for my marathon time but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

You can run the time you want w/50-55 mpw, as long as you do two things:

1) As several posters have said, run longer: 2.5 hrs or a bit more. 19-22 miles, at least four times prior to the race. Run the first hour easy, with no concern for pace; then slowly accelerate to marathon pace and hold it

2) Twice a week, run hill repeats of 3-4 minutes. I used to do 8-10. First repeats easier; later repeats harder. Sandwich them between easy w/up and w/dn miles: 3-4 at each end.

Hills have been praised, by those who've experienced their miracle-work, for many different things, but the truth is they work miracles for marathoners, too.

I ran four marathons (2:53, 3:00, 3:06, 3:11; fastest last) using this regimen. 10-12 w/hills on Tu/Th, 16-22 on Sun w/first hour easy, rest of run towards MP; four other days 3-5 @ 9:00 pace recovery. 50-60 mpw. No need to run more than that, as long as you've put in the hills and the long runs w/some MP distance-work.