I don't really follow D1 Cross country very closely but going through the Great Lakes Regional, Oakland did not even send their men's team. Is it commonplace for subpar teams to stay home entirely?
I don't really follow D1 Cross country very closely but going through the Great Lakes Regional, Oakland did not even send their men's team. Is it commonplace for subpar teams to stay home entirely?
Yes
Yes. One year, my college cross country team had a horrible year and got killed at the conference meet. Our coach refused to take us to the regional meet, telling us we didn't deserve it.
Who is the driver behind these decisions? The coach or administration? It seems like it would be hard to recruit athletes if you don't even compete in post season competition. Also it seem the teams who stay home might have at least 1 or 2 individuals who would be have a respectable showing.
The coach makes the decision.
Cross country is the only sport in the NCAA with no qualifying standard for post season. Also the only sport without its own scholarships or limits.
Therefore, there are many different philosophies being employed in the same sport. Your opinion on the sport may not be the same as everyone else's.
No coach leaves contending teams or contending individuals home. Just because there is no entry standard, doesn't mean everyone SHOULD compete. "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
since you go by "Rat Face" I wonder if you ran for centrowitz?
Yes it is commonplace. With the exception of the Mountain Region, the regions each have 40ish schools. Most of the time only 25 teams actually register a score. A lot of coaches will not race a team that does not have a shot at top 15.
Coaches can, and many do, enter individuals. For the most part a coach will bring any athlete they feel is an All Region contender.
There is currently no compulsion from the NCAA to attend Regionals (outside of National qualification). Teams use to have to register a score to be an All Academic team but I believe the rule went away recently.
Oakland sent 4 guys so they don't show up in team standings. They have a pretty decent freshman that was about 80th.
I've always been in two state of minds about it. On one hand, if a team isnt good enough to compete in the regional, I half want to send them anyway just so they can get the crap beaten out of them and understand just how good everybody else is. Sometimes that pisses them off enough to train harder, but sometimes they don't need that upward comparison. Sometimes its best to just focus on each other and improve without the pressure of a bunch of teams that are much faster.
As for recruiting, there's always a way to spin it. "Yea, our men/women were a bit banged up and we want to make sure they are healthy and ready for track." Sometimes its better to not compete at the regional meet than get manhandled by legitimate teams. It's all about phrasing and what the specific recruit is looking for but you're right, its definitely not going to be a huge plus in any recruits book when you don't compete. But the same can be said for getting your a** kicked.
Current thread's OP wrote:
Who is the driver behind these decisions? The coach or administration? It seems like it would be hard to recruit athletes if you don't even compete in post season competition. Also it seem the teams who stay home might have at least 1 or 2 individuals who would be have a respectable showing.
There have been instances when admins won't let the team go if the regional is going to be costly to get to & they know they're going to embarrass themselves. The coach could probably fight the decision...but it's probably not worth pissing off their boss when they have one job in the first place...and that is not to compete at a DI level.
Yes, there are a lot of fake d1 teams out there. There are 318 d1 teams and at least half of them shouldn't run at regional. (baring if a team has an individual that might finish top 25 in that region to qualify as an individual)
NCAA really should use conference champs as a qualifier for regionals...
In 2006, the head track coach at Portland State (I think it was Kebba Tolbert) refused to let the cross country teams run at the West Regional...despite it being held in PORTLAND. Disgraceful.
There are d1 teams that would lose to d3 teams. These schools don't have scholarships and don't care much about the sport. They run it on a shoestring budget and often only attend a couple meets and conference, not going to regionals if it is more than a van ride away.
Just check out the results from a week region like the South. You have teams that are averaging over 35 minutes at 10k! Their #1 runners weren't even in the top 100, yet they still decided to run. As the other poster noted; just because you can show up, doesn't mean you should.
SOUTH REGION
20 Stetson 2:55:14 35:02 526 33 110 118 131 134
21 Chattanooga 2:56:57 35:23 586 96 107 113 132 138 146
22 South Florida 3:01:48 36:21 644 106 122 133 140 143 144
23 Florida Atlantic 3:02:43 36:32 652 117 123 125 142 145
24 Savannah State 3:02:47 36:33 665 124 129 136 137 139
GREAT LAKES REGION
25 Purdue Fort Wayne 2:49:43 33:56 710 108 142 146 154 160 168 188
26 Wright State 2:51:07 34:13 716 60 148 161 173 174 175 184
27 Toledo 2:52:53 34:34 794 125 155 157 178 179 194
28 Evansville 2:57:19 35:27 896 172 177 180 181 186 191
29 Wis.-Green Bay 3:13:42 38:44 973 192 193 195 196 197 198
For many schools, a recruiting tool to not go or enter a full team. For example, in the East you can do well at New Englands (many team don't go), do well at your conference meet, and then send a partial team or don't even attend the Regional and con your recruits into thinking youre as good as the big boys.
It happens. There really is no reason to run it if you aren't going to qualify for nationals. It might be better to rest up for indoor track. It is probably one of the most competitive XC races most people could ever hope to enter. Typically 250 guys enter the NE regional and pretty much all of them are capable of running sub 33 for 10K
..................... wrote:
The coach makes the decision.
Cross country is the only sport in the NCAA with no qualifying standard for post season. Also the only sport without its own scholarships or limits.
Therefore, there are many different philosophies being employed in the same sport. Your opinion on the sport may not be the same as everyone else's.
No coach leaves contending teams or contending individuals home. Just because there is no entry standard, doesn't mean everyone SHOULD compete. "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
+1
At least Wisc Green Bay ran as a pack:
29 Wis.-Green Bay 3:13:42 38:44 973 192 193 195 196 197 198
Would you do this in any other sport though? Some of these smaller D1's play against power conference teams in basketball and routinely lose by 50+ points, but at least they show up. I can't imagine anyone would say it's fine to forfeit to get ready for the next game or season.
icouldaranthere wrote:
At least Wisc Green Bay ran as a pack:
29 Wis.-Green Bay 3:13:42 38:44 973 192 193 195 196 197 198
38:44 average for 10k? Those guys wouldn’t even get age group at a local turkey trot.