Jos Hermens holds nothing back regarding Bekele: "I think he has some kind of dyslexia, an inability to plan..."

salted jock wrote:

Speaker of the truth wrote:

Bekele simply isn’t built for the thon. His quads are too big.

He doesn’t have the desire to put in the insane training cause he already accomplished a stellar track career.

He is focused on business endeavors which quite frankly will benefit himself and others more in the future.

Unlike Kipchoge he actually lives with his family. I wouldn’t trade seeing my childrem like Kipchoge has to run fast. No money or fame is worth that.

His quads may be "too big," but he is the same human being who threw down a 2:03 in Berlin two years ago. So, I'm skeptical of that argument.

I agree that it's important to spend time with your kids, but how much does training really take away from that?

I’m not saying he can’t run fast in comparison to us. But he does not have the perfect marathon build like Kipchoge.

Kipchoge only sees his kids the weekends and focuses on resting between his runs. Bekele on the other hand is running businesses, spending time with family, and trying to train at a world class marathoners level. It might only cost him 1 or 2 minutes but that is the difference between first and fifth at that level.

What a way to destroy your own legacy...

All he is doing right now is turning his reputation of a champ into one of a loser.

Honestly, I believe now less and less in his performances of the past. Had to be EPO.

Let’s face it marathons are just a lucrative hobby for him now. He’s a businessman now. Good for him to focus on something that’s not as selfish as running.

Bekele probably is spread too thin and is not dedicating the necessary time to the marathon. Geb was always sure to get in his morning run, take care of business matters for a few hours, and then get in the afternoon run. I don't know what Bekele is doing, but it seems like other matters are getting on the way of running.

Also, these guys come from patriarchal societies, but it's clear that Geb's and Kipchoge's wife and any help do most of the child raising. Kipchoge is at training camp most of the week. They focus on training and business while others focus on their families. Not saying this makes them bad people, but that's how they operate.

does anyone have and idea of the training required to break a world record though? We are talking about new territory. Coaches probably have an idea of what 2:04-2:06 takes, but not faster.

This is probably it. The world record just fell and running over 5 minutes slower is going to make him look like an also ran

False. Bekele destroyed fields on the track even if no one was close to him.

Does it actually make sense? wrote:

Isn't he a fairly well off and successful business man these days?

I don't know what's going on, but I'm sceptical of the "just collecting appearance fees" argument people are throwing around.

Exactly! I think as others have mentioned it's just a lack of motivation to do proper marathon training. I've heard numerous times in interviews that transitioning to Marathons was difficult for him as he didn't like the training that goes with it. He might just not be mentally aligned with this distance.

With that said, he still has had some success in the marathon and I'm sure he can't be stupid to think what he is currently doing will suddenly work in future races. If he actually wants to go to the next Olympics which i do think is a goal for him, he needs to change his lifestyle/training

I agree that he needs to change his lifestyle. But what really is the benefit for him to do so? His business stuff is I’m sure racking in the money and is his future. What does another medal really get him but a pat on the back.

good question...and i guess that's up to him to answer. From interviews it sounds like he still wants the glory of Olympic medal or WR but can he sacrifice parts of his life to get that??

I recall last Olympics he was desperate to make the team...even trying a last minute 10,000m to try and make it after being left off the Marathon team. That shows me in his mind he still wants that even after his prior accomplishments

The guy ran 26:17 for 10K, which is insanely fast.

He is still the current WR holder for 5K and 10K, and obviously one of the greatest distance runners of all times.

But his glory days are over, and imho he will never run close to his 2:03:03 PB.

Charlesvdw wrote:

The guy ran 26:17 for 10K, which is insanely fast.

He is still the current WR holder for 5K and 10K, and obviously one of the greatest distance runners of all times.

But his glory days are over, and imho he will never run close to his 2:03:03 PB.

Considering his age I don’t also do g think he will run faster than 2:03. In the back of his mind he has to know that. But he’s like Brett Fabre he just can’t let go.

Ggggg wrote:

[quote]Charlesvdw wrote:

The guy ran 26:17 for 10K, which is insanely fast.

He is still the current WR holder for 5K and 10K, and obviously one of the greatest distance runners of all times.

But his glory days are over, and imho he will never run close to his 2:03:03 PB.

Grammar corrections...

Considering his age I don’t think he will run faster than 2:03 either. In the back of his mind he has to know that. But he’s like Brett Favre he just can’t let go.

I didn't say why does LRC waste its time on KB, I said why does a major marathon waste its money on him (and, it appears fewer are willing to do so...).

The fact that he has run so fast so recently is, of course, relevant and makes him newsworthy. I'm glad LRC covers him as a story.

His shtick is what's driving me nuts. Either he has what it takes or he doesn't. If he does, then put in soooomething beyond the absolute bare minimum (recall Hermens saying smth to effect of: "He's so talented he can run a 2:03 or 2:04 off of 8 weeks training"). It's not that hard! Plenty of people do it!

It not, stop coming up with weird excuses about stepping on rocks or eating too many bananas (recall the long NYT article) after blowing up.

I've heard so many times that he's racing various marathons at 70%, or 80%, or whatever and it's all just not believable anymore

salted jock wrote:

I understand the Dutch are known for their characteristic bluntness, but this type of interview is almost crazy to me.

Ignore the American expat who thinks he understands Dutch culture. This wasn't a normal Dutch interview at all. This looks like a crazy and blunt interview, because it was a crazy and blunt interview. To me it seemed like Hermens was trying to distance himself from Bekele, or at least make sure people think Bekele is the problem and not him.

There are also some strong post-colonial undertones. They're essentially painting a picture of Bekele the uncultured African who can't plan things as opposed to the great Dutch nation where everything is planned out to the second. After raining praise on Kipchoge, Hermens even says Kipchoge is the only African he met with a western (and therefore good) mindset. Hell, at one point the interview literally refers to Bekele as a boy even though he's 36.

Also, big translation error in the title quote, this is what Hermens was actually saying: "You know, there's dyslexia, dyscalculia and I think he has a dys-- uhm, dys--, you know he can't plan things."

Oh and another thing I forget, they keep describing Bekele as extraordinarily talented. His success was because he was born that way and not because what he did or because of his character. Think football commentators calling black players supreme athletes and naturals and white players hard workers and intelligent players.

salted jock wrote:

I understand the Dutch are known for their characteristic bluntness, but this type of interview is almost crazy to me.

Bekele needs to get away from this guy, and to get a manager who's supportive of him.

I agree with your other post-colonial points. But calling Bekele extraordinarily talented seems pretty uncontroversial.

Think about it this way: imagine if Hermens was Jakob Ingebrigtsens agent. Do you think Hermens would be talking about hard work or about talent? In other words, would he say Jakob's success is because of his choices, his action, because of him as a person, or because he's just a unique specimen with boundless talent? He's essentially saying the latter about Bekele. He might slack on training nowadays when he has a lot more on his plate, but nobody can convince me you can run a sub 2:10 off seven weeks of training without crazy lifetime miles.

What was Hermens' best time for the marathon?

amazing to think he still was on pace for a 2:07 marathon at 40k with such poor preparation... similar to the London 2016 marathon. I REALLY want to see him put in a good 16 week block of training, just once. I think the resulting marathon would be special.