Is my coach excessively overtraining my XC team

Look up Rudy Chapa high school training if you think you are over training.

God2 wrote:

Okay so my coach has been giving us insane workouts on a weekly basis. We had a workout last wednesday which was 2(1600-1200-800) at 5k race pace on a somewhat hilly course. Then on friday, she gave us a 2x10 min workout at 5k race pace with only 3-4 min rest and today she gave us a 4X1 mile workout at approximately our 3k-4k race pace with 3 min rest. Furthermore, she makes us do 20-30 min of ab exercises with massive numbers of reps such as 60 v-ups, 40 push-ups, and 200m of lunges on an almost daily basis. Are these workouts insane?

what grade are you in? if your a freshman or sophomore she is certainly overtraining you. If your a junior or a senior seems pretty intense but it's not overtraining. Be sure to take the recovery days easy and not hard.

For most HS athletes, it's too much volume, and too frequently.

a) The 2x1600-1200-800 workout seems solid, but fairly high volume. Doable with enough rest.

b) 2 x 10 minutes at 5K pace is a bad idea. That's 1.5-2 miles at 5K pace, depending on the athlete. Just one of those reps is enough to qualify as a time trial.

c) 4 x 1 mile at 5K would be OK, but at 3K pace and short rest, most people would have a hard time finishing the workout.

Solution:

Run a) with enough rest. Stay relaxed and slow the pace if you feel yourself straining.

Turn b) into cruise intervals, so add :25/mile to your 5K pace.

Run c) around 5K pace, if you're feeling OK that day. As the 3rd workout in 5 days, you may have to slow a bit from 5K pace.

God2 wrote:

RE: Is my coach excessively overtraining my XC team

Sounds like an apt amount of overtraining. Perhaps slow it down if you can’t getthrough the workouts at the prescribed pace.

Honestly, compared to what we did in high school, this is embarrassingly weak. You failed to mention what you're doing on the other days.

And don't be upset you're doing core. Do you just not enjoy it, or do you not understand why you're doing it?

I wouldnt necessarily saying this is insane and overtraining. The prescribed paces arent possible unless you are incredibly aerobically developed in a way most high school runners are not. But doing these workouts at a slower pace probably isnt crazy if you have been running seriously for a year or two.

Your coach might be giving these paces in an attempt to give you guys a high target to shoot for. In general, I disagree with that, I prefer to give realistic goals.

To much race pace training no matter the level. That first workout of 2x(16-12-8) is the type of volume i would have a sub 17 junior/senior do based on experience/running age.

Way too insane for a high schooler. You don’t need 3 high volume race pace workouts in less than 7 days. Especially if you’ve started racing.

2 (1600-1200-800) @5k pace(closest to sanity)

2x10 min @ 5k pace

4x1600 @ 3k pace

Better would be

2x10 min @ tempo pace(5k pace + 30sec per mile)

2 sets of 1600-1200-800 @ tempo for 1600, 1200 and 800 @ 5k pace

4x1600 @ 5k pace decent workout but would still be too hard for most high schoolers

200m of lunges is quite a bit. I was never really into lunges but hey, if it works go for it.

I wouldn't say this is overtraining but not sure what all you're doing on your easy days. The pace is a little high for all the days you listed. Might want to back off on one of them.

FYI: XC and T&F workouts are tough. They aren't just a walk in the garden........unless you're a high jumper.

God2 wrote:

Okay so my coach has been giving us insane workouts on a weekly basis. We had a workout last wednesday which was 2(1600-1200-800) at 5k race pace on a somewhat hilly course. Then on friday, she gave us a 2x10 min workout at 5k race pace with only 3-4 min rest and today she gave us a 4X1 mile workout at approximately our 3k-4k race pace with 3 min rest. Furthermore, she makes us do 20-30 min of ab exercises with massive numbers of reps such as 60 v-ups, 40 push-ups, and 200m of lunges on an almost daily basis. Are these workouts insane?

You lose a little credibility when you call 40 push ups “massive number of reps”.

God2 wrote:

Okay so my coach has been giving us insane workouts on a weekly basis. We had a workout last wednesday which was 2(1600-1200-800) at 5k race pace on a somewhat hilly course. Then on friday, she gave us a 2x10 min workout at 5k race pace with only 3-4 min rest and today she gave us a 4X1 mile workout at approximately our 3k-4k race pace with 3 min rest. Furthermore, she makes us do 20-30 min of ab exercises with massive numbers of reps such as 60 v-ups, 40 push-ups, and 200m of lunges on an almost daily basis. Are these workouts insane?

The fancy 2(1600 + 1200 + 800) is nothing but 6 x 1200m @ 5K race pace. Your 4 x one mile is also a normal h.s. workout (it was my normal). I used to do (100 to 500) sit-ups five or six days a week; I used to do (100 to 200) bent knee leg raises five or six days a week and I used to do (50 to 100) push ups five or six days a week. I did all from age 11 or 12 through most of my twenties. Eat good foods. Drink plenty of water and try to get good sleep. You have some responsibility regarding your recovery.

at least the workout will make you mentally tougher and you will be able to be more confident in a race

It's the kind of workouts I disagree with. I always feel it's a bad mistake to work race pace for high schoolers during the season.

You do 5k pace in races way more than you need to during the high school XC season so there is no need to workout at those paces in training.

Her choices should be tempo & close to 10k pace or faster than 5k for workouts.

Most of the workouts you list seem hard but maybe not excessive. You didn't tell us your 5k pace but, assuming it's in the 5 to 6 minute/mile range, 2 x 10min at 5k pace is quite a workout -- essentially a race effort -- but then it may be that the goal of the workout is to take the place of a race, I don't know. Obviously you should talk to your coach but if you are convinced that a workout like the 2 x 10min is too much, consider aiming to run it at 10k pace instead of 5k pace. It will look like you are doing what you are told and will turn a monster workout into a run-of-the-mill session and, honestly, you may find that you run the second rep faster this way.

This is idiotic training. Any coach with a brain would say that.

3hr-marathoner wrote:

Most of the workouts you list seem hard but maybe not excessive. You didn't tell us your 5k pace but, assuming it's in the 5 to 6 minute/mile range, 2 x 10min at 5k pace is quite a workout -- essentially a race effort -- but then it may be that the goal of the workout is to take the place of a race, I don't know. Obviously you should talk to your coach but if you are convinced that a workout like the 2 x 10min is too much, consider aiming to run it at 10k pace instead of 5k pace. It will look like you are doing what you are told and will turn a monster workout into a run-of-the-mill session and, honestly, you may find that you run the second rep faster this way.

Were you a h.s. XC runner 3hr Marathoner? If OP is definitely a JV runner, ok to sandbag the workout I guess. If OP is definitely a top seven XC runner, maybe it's ok to sandbag workouts. What if OP is a captain? What if OP is most likely team MVP? What if OP is sixth, seventh or eighth runner? In h.s. I was first, second or third fasted 5K runner on team and was captain for two years. There was no sandbagging workouts in h.s.. In college, I was fifth fastest XC runner on team. Every workout I was impressing coach. I was showing college coach I was a varsity runner every workout. Coaches decide often who will or will not race varsity based on workouts.

Coaches should decide who will or won't race varsity based on their times in races, not rewarding workout heroes.

cart 4 horse wrote:

Coaches should decide who will or won't race varsity based on their times in races, not rewarding workout heroes.

Are you 3hr Marathoner poster? If you are 3hr Marathoner, is the answer , "No" for you as a h.s. XC runner? If you are 3hr Marathoner, what you suggested is Anarchy. Coach tells his/her lead runners to do workouts at 5K pace and varsity runners then do workouts at 10K pace, that's a direct challenge to authority.

cart 4 horse wrote:

Coaches should decide who will or won't race varsity based on their times in races, not rewarding workout heroes.

^^^true

And 4x1600 @3k pace is REDICULO!!! At least your team will have an impressive looking training log.