Has Kipchoge surpassed Bekele as GOAT?

No

Trackbot! compare kenenisa bekele vs eliud kipchoge

Bekele goes home devastated

I am a robot

One thing is for sure Kipchoge has the GOAT shoes. He has better shoes then Bekele. I'm sure I could beat Aryton Senna in a race with a Lamborghini with him in a Lada so am I the goat driver

Neither. Haile Geb is the GOAT.

Kipchoge has 2 Olympic and World golds. Bekele has 8 and has the WR in the two marquee distance events. Kipchoge moved up because he couldn't beat Bekele, and probably even Mo (I know about 2003, that was one time only). The 10k has been kind of sad after the Geb/Bekele era, no one close to their times, but the 5k has always been way more competitive than the marathon. Bekele could have broken 2 hours if he trained for it seriously when he was 25.

kartelite wrote:

Kipchoge has 2 Olympic and World golds. Bekele has 8 and has the WR in the two marquee distance events. Kipchoge moved up because he couldn't beat Bekele, and probably even Mo (I know about 2003, that was one time only). The 10k has been kind of sad after the Geb/Bekele era, no one close to their times, but the 5k has always been way more competitive than the marathon. Bekele could have broken 2 hours if he trained for it seriously when he was 25.

Why do you think that? Tergat went 2:04:55 in 2003. Geb went 2:03:59 in 2008. That's the Bekele era right there. Whatever you think of the man, his era was not ready for a time much faster than that.

To accept that Ki[choge's the GOAT, you'd have to accept a Federer/Nadal type argument where Bekele had Kipchoge's number, but Kipchoge is still better. I don't think that's the best argument. Kipchoge held his own in the 5k, which we've seen now is not close to his best event. How close would he have been had he focused on the 10k?

Here's the Kipchoge argument: he's done something that no one has ever done, namely win 9 consecutive marathons. He's done that because he's a fantastic mental runner, but also because he's so far ahead of everyone else that he wins on his off days. The 5k and 10k are so different in that the best runner almost always wins. Geb and Farah both had similar championship success to Bekele, and Geb in particular is essentially the exact same runner. So Bekele was peerless in his own time, but certainly not peerless in all times.

Kipchoge on the other hand

1) Won the Olympic marathon by a (recent) record margin

2) Won a record number of consecutive top-class marathons

3) Broke the world record by a (recent) record margin

4) Ran the fastest all-conditions time

He also nearly broke the World Record in London, which hasn't been done since 2002 (and Kipchoge's time was 2:33 faster that Khannouchi's). He also won that race where his insoles fell out, and that London race in 2015 when he beat Kipsang and Kimetto back when no one beat Kipsang or Kimetto.

So all of this suggested not just marathon GOAT, but rather that Kipchoge is not only the best in the best time, but he's the best by more than anyone has ever been the best, and he's done it in the best time. I'm not saying this is enough to call him the all-time GOAT, but it's certainly a powerful suggestion.

Another way to think about it is: it's hard to convert times between events, but it'smuch more reliable to convert DIFFERENCES. Kipchoge's gap ahead of Kimetto is equivalent to 8 seconds in the 5k. Imagine if Geb never existed, Komen never existed, and Barega wasn't in the Brussels race just now. Gebrhiwet's 12:45 would have just become the second fastest run of all time, and that's the gap between Kipchoge and everyone else.

Basically, the marathon has caught up to the Geb/Bekele years in the 5k/10k. And Kipchoge is even more dominant that either of them were. So maybe that makes him the GOAT?

automorphic wrote:

kartelite wrote:

Bekele could have broken 2 hours if he trained for it seriously when he was 25.

Why do you think that? Tergat went 2:04:55 in 2003. Geb went 2:03:59 in 2008. That's the Bekele era right there. Whatever you think of the man, his era was not ready for a time much faster than that.

The best evidence that Beleke could have run a fast very fast marathon in his prime is the legitimately fast 2:03:03 in Berlin that he ran in 2016 well after his prime had ended. I'm not saying he'd have been able to break 2-flat in in '04/'05 but I certainly think he'd have been capable of what we just saw from Kipchoge. Same argument with Geb's 2:03:59: Geb was already on the decline in 2008. He'd have been faster for sure if he'd focused on the marathon in his peak.

Of course not! Use your brain! Afaik the record is 16-8 Kenny vs kipchoge. 12:37 vs 12:46. 26:17 vs 26:49(!) And bekele owns 4 world records plus #3 all time in the marathon. Kipchoge is for sure the goat in the thon. But bekele is infinitely better over all.

Moran.

And don't get me started on bekele's xc dominance, and his medal count vs kipchoge. Bekele in his prime could have definitely run sub 2:01, if not sub 2. Bekele ran in one of the most competitive eras, winning against G

eb, tergat, Farah, lagat, kipchoge.

Kipchoge had raced some no-name east Africans, an out of prime Kipsang and out of prime Bekele.

epicTCK wrote:

And don't get me started on bekele's xc dominance, and his medal count vs kipchoge. Bekele in his prime could have definitely run sub 2:01, if not sub 2. Bekele ran in one of the most competitive eras, winning against G

eb, tergat, Farah, lagat, kipchoge.

Kipchoge had raced some no-name east Africans, an out of prime Kipsang and out of prime Bekele.

People want to bring up gold medals and winning races, and be nigh unbeatable, then Mo Farah needs considered. From 2011 to 2017, he collected 4 Oly Gold, 6 WC Gold, and 2 WC Silver. In this was the "double double double" which he did in Olympic competition and World championships.

Twice with in a year he ran a 3:28 1500 and a 59:mid half marathon. He never chased a fast time, but his 8:03i two mile world best and 3:28 1500 showed that he could run fast if he wanted. Does anyone seriously think that he would have lost that 12:45 race a few weeks ago?

While he hasn't taken to the marathon like Kipchoge or Bekele did, he has run a 208 and 206, which isn't exactly bad. I don't think there is another person ever that has run 3:28 1500 and a 206 marathon.

Farah will end up sub 204 marathon, and I bet he medals in Tokyo. That's enough to get his name in any GOAT discussion.

I think Geb and Bekele are your leading candidates for GOAT. Kipchoge has so few championship wins and world records by comparison to these guys. You think Kipchoge is great now, but imagine him beating this 2:01:39 world record several more times in the next few years. That's basically what Geb and Bekele did. If Kipchoge accomplishes that, then we can revisit this discussion.

Watch the 2008 Olympic 5000m for your answer.

Shoebacca wrote:

I think Geb and Bekele are your leading candidates for GOAT. Kipchoge has so few championship wins and world records by comparison to these guys. You think Kipchoge is great now, but imagine him beating this 2:01:39 world record several more times in the next few years. That's basically what Geb and Bekele did. If Kipchoge accomplishes that, then we can revisit this discussion.

This. Kipchoge is awesome. No doubt. Kipchoge is inspiring. Kipchoge is better than Farah. But Bekele and Haile are in a world of their own.

no one has yet unseated Geb from the throne of GOAT, not even Bekele.

Kipchoge is the absolute GOAT of the marathon and will remain unchallenged for that title for at least 15 years.

Farah's dominance and incredible range (3:28 is mind boggling) is notable but his lack of wr is a death blow against any possible claim to GOAT.

My track memory of Kipchoge was beating two GOATS with one kick -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMZdOdriRdk&t=122s

kartelite wrote:

Kipchoge moved up because he couldn't beat Bekele, and probably even Mo .

Kipchoge beat Mo and T. Bekele in an indoor 2 mile in about 2012, roughly 8:07 to 8:09 if my memory is close to correct.

[quote]Koo wrote:

My track memory of Kipchoge was beating two GOATS with one kick -

With a 53 last lap in a 12:52 race., beating Bekele and El G. Greatest 5000m championship race ever.

Koo wrote:

My track memory of Kipchoge was beating two GOATS with one kick -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMZdOdriRdk&t=122s

But Kipchoge lost in the Olympics twice to Bekele 2004 and 2008 in which Bekele won the 10K before the 5k each year. Bekele also set the OR 12:57.82 in his 2008 win, one of the many records he holds. along with 3 Olympic golds. Kipchoge now has one.

18 WC golds - Bekele, 2 WC golds Kipchoge.

It's not even close.

Bekele is the GOAT.