Does Evan Jager just not have the fire?

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eureka

1 year ago 08/30/2018 3:32pm CDT

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I'm a huge fan of Evan but after today's race wonder if he has the killer instinct needed to be the best.

Kipruto ran nearly the entire race with one shoe. Jager was up there looking like he wanted to do well but once they went around him on the final lap just wilted. Sure you can't just will yourself to a victory but if Jager had whatever Kipruto had today I think we'd see a different result.

Kipruto may have a Ferrari engine but he also has something else uptop. He was determined to win the jackpot.
lornas king of wife

1 year ago 08/30/2018 3:39pm CDT
re: eureka

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I have to disagree strongly. There are so many factors that determine performance on any given day. I don't think it's fair to say a runner doesn't have "the killer instinct" just because of one race. Jager has been an animal on the U.S. and world scene for years now. He's the greatest US steepler of all time. You don't get anywhere near that point without killer instinct.

I agree that Kipruto was simply monstrous today. He undoubtedly has grit. I think it's so subjective and hard to accurately tell how "tough" a runner is, though, without having any real insight beyond surface level appearance into their pain level or what they are pushing through or overcoming.
El Keniano

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1 year ago 08/30/2018 4:09pm CDT
re: eureka

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I’m a big fan of Evan ‘white simba’ Jager myself (yes I am, do a search) and he’s always been my favourite American runner. At the end of the race in Monaco, they showed a glimpse of him looking mighty frustrated and disappointed and I agree sub 8 is now unlikely . For one, I don’t think the sparse racing is a good strategy. But who am I to judge? I’m not his coach.
Hey Whatever

1 year ago 08/30/2018 4:12pm CDT
re: El Keniano

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Yeah, he has the fire. He was leading the top two steeplers in the world late in the race. He's not shabby. He gave it a shot.
zxcvzxcv

1 year ago 08/30/2018 4:25pm CDT
re: Hey Whatever

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He has a mental block related to his fall in Paris and his multiple sub 8:05 performances. He needs to address that by competing a number of times rather than coming in for one race and then leaving it at that. He needs the confidence as well to go after the time in races like this, because his best performances have stemmed from that strategy where other guys have great abilities to accelerate at the end but don't often have the ability to sustain a sub 8 pace as long as Jager can if it is even.
He really needs to run a steeple, a 1500m, and then the target fast steeple when he is sharp. Don't forget that he ran that Paris race years ago the week after running multiple heats at U.S. champs in the heat.
broken arrow

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1 year ago 08/30/2018 4:36pm CDT
re: eureka

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eureka wrote:

I'm a huge fan of Evan but after today's race wonder if he has the killer instinct needed to be the best.

Kipruto ran nearly the entire race with one shoe. Jager was up there looking like he wanted to do well but once they went around him on the final lap just wilted. Sure you can't just will yourself to a victory but if Jager had whatever Kipruto had today I think we'd see a different result.

Kipruto may have a Ferrari engine but he also has something else uptop. He was determined to win the jackpot.

He is a great runner, but Kipruto is the best right now, plain and simple. Also he did not let loosing a shoe disrupt him at all, and I think if he had both shoes on the last lap he would have won by a substantial margin.

nlm,;

1 year ago 08/30/2018 4:38pm CDT
re: zxcvzxcv

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I have to say I think he and Jerry have gone about things the wrong way, especially this year. In the past, what made Evan successful was getting so strong that he could move to the lead from 800-1000m out and hammer. That's what almost won him the race in Paris.

Recently, he has decided to work on his last lap and his sprint. He will never have the speed to do this. Not only is he now not able to kick on the last lap, but he is also no longer able to kick from 2-3 laps out. Beyond this, even if working on his speed WAS the answer that would put him over the top - it would taking racing much more than he does to get him there. 4 races in 6 months won't cut it. He would need to race Steeples, 1500s and 800s with relative frequency to really get used to running at that pace while lactic.

Evan's best bet is and has always been getting so strong that he can be in 12'55/7'55 shape and hammer from a ways out to drop the field. He seems to be stuck in a sort of limbo now.
Precious Roy

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1 year ago 08/30/2018 5:56pm CDT
re: nlm,;

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Evan is too long to be able to turnover on the last lap the way Kipruto can. He is also much more of a rhythm runner like Rupp and needs to grind people down before the last lap. Kipruto has always been able to out kick him.

I think Evan should try to move up in distance after 2020. At 29, his kick is not going to get much better. He will easily make the Olympics, but there will always be an E. African who can close better. He is an incredibly smooth and efficient runner. He could be surprisingly good at longer distances.
Awsi Dooger

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1 year ago 08/30/2018 7:56pm CDT
re: eureka

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Dedicated guy who simply doesn't have the burst and change of gear of the top international athletes. He needs a big lead and opponents not in top form. Once it reaches the final lap with those two guys nearby, the outcome is not in doubt.

Steeplechase is drawing superior athletes right now. Very early stages of that in mens and womens. The Jager and Coburn types came around at the correct time because a half decade or so from now I think they would have been battling for 5th or 6th, not the podium, at the Olympics and Worlds.
Hardloper

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1 year ago 08/30/2018 8:09pm CDT
re: lornas king of wife

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lornas king of wife wrote:

I have to disagree strongly. There are so many factors that determine performance on any given day. I don't think it's fair to say a runner doesn't have "the killer instinct" just because of one race. Jager has been an animal on the U.S. and world scene for years now. He's the greatest US steepler of all time. You don't get anywhere near that point without killer instinct.

I agree that Kipruto was simply monstrous today. He undoubtedly has grit. I think it's so subjective and hard to accurately tell how "tough" a runner is, though, without having any real insight beyond surface level appearance into their pain level or what they are pushing through or overcoming.

Well said. Jager is under the microscope because he is the only US hope. He has beaten Kipruto multiple times before, and no one started threads questioning whether Kipruto had "killer instinct." It comes down to who is better on the day and Kipruto and Bakkali were a lot better today.
Fox nuws

1 year ago 08/30/2018 8:22pm CDT
re: Hardloper

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Ok everybody, can we please not focus on his likely doping charge?. Let's be fair to all athletes, even the white Americans.
Heard another coach say verbatim:

1 year ago 08/30/2018 8:34pm CDT
re: Fox nuws

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More speed needed?
Run some more races.
Especially under-distance.

Instead, more of the same nonsense thinking about speed comes from strength.

The other best steeplers can’t come close to Jagers flat time or hurdle technique. What’s missing is some straight up toughness speed at the end when tired and that comes only from racing.

Would’ve been a perfect year to address it.

move up to what????

1 year ago 08/30/2018 8:35pm CDT
re: Precious Roy

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Precious Roy wrote:

I think Evan should try to move up in distance after 2020.

Do they run a 6,000 M steeplechase?
DC Wonk

1 year ago 08/30/2018 8:59pm CDT
re: eureka

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Jaeger peaked too soon last year and the same this year. He needs to adjust to account for that. The six weeks between running 8:01 and today obviously did nothing for him. He was not able to go fast when it mattered.
Pure Hate Pupil

1 year ago 08/30/2018 9:54pm CDT
re: eureka

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Never question whether or not someone has the “fire” because you’ll get burned. 🔥

😏
Shoe Maker

1 year ago 08/30/2018 9:58pm CDT
re: Pure Hate Pupil

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I agree that Jerry's dumb infrequent racing approach has done Evan a disservice in his pursuit of a sub-eight minute clocking.

My coach in college had a similar philosophy. Some guys would go months between races; competition began to feel like a distant memory, and one had no idea where one really stood race-wise.
TomatoTomato

1 year ago 08/30/2018 10:32pm CDT
re: eureka

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Jager had to cool it after the Fancy Bears leak. He's never going to go back to the same level.
grumpyoldman

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1 year ago 08/30/2018 11:27pm CDT
re: lornas king of wife

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lornas king of wife wrote:

I have to disagree strongly. There are so many factors that determine performance on any given day. I don't think it's fair to say a runner doesn't have "the killer instinct" just because of one race. Jager has been an animal on the U.S. and world scene for years now. He's the greatest US steepler of all time. You don't get anywhere near that point without killer instinct.

I agree that Kipruto was simply monstrous today. He undoubtedly has grit. I think it's so subjective and hard to accurately tell how "tough" a runner is, though, without having any real insight beyond surface level appearance into their pain level or what they are pushing through or overcoming.

Kipruto has grit but Jager doesn't. It's not like Kipruto ran 7:59. I think the Bowerman Babes have bigger balls than Manbun Evan does.

Funny, in 1980, in the first CC meet of the year, a guy ahead of me lost a shoe in the first mile and kept going. Their team went 1-2, with Shoeless Joe getting 2nd. In the end, I was 3rd by about 3 seconds, and beat myself up all year for not pushing the clown with one shoe (who wore through his sock also over the remainder of race).
Youknownothing

1 year ago 08/31/2018 12:45am CDT
re: zxcvzxcv

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zxcvzxcv wrote:

He has a mental block related to his fall in Paris and his multiple sub 8:05 performances. He needs to address that by competing a number of times rather than coming in for one race and then leaving it at that. He needs the confidence as well to go after the time in races like this, because his best performances have stemmed from that strategy where other guys have great abilities to accelerate at the end but don't often have the ability to sustain a sub 8 pace as long as Jager can if it is even.
He really needs to run a steeple, a 1500m, and then the target fast steeple when he is sharp. Don't forget that he ran that Paris race years ago the week after running multiple heats at U.S. champs in the heat.

Is everyone this stupid on here? If you’re so good at coaching why don’t you coach an athlete to be as consistent as Jager?

Oh wait that’s right the only coaching you’ll be doing is from the bench of your kids team going on about how they have a mental block from a bad race.
running commenter

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1 year ago 08/31/2018 1:01am CDT
re: eureka

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All of the sudden Jager has to run sub-8 to justify his career? Come on guys he's the greatest US Steepler ever. He has probably 8 of the top 10 marks on the all-time performance list. He has a medals, records, etc. Why can't he just run 8 flat and still have "the fire" whatever that means.

He said he wasn't willing to be the rabbit the final mile of a steeplechase anymore and to be honest being that rabbit in the past is probably the reason he hasn't always finished well. He happens to be 3rd in the world behind two absolute studs.

If he ran 7:56 today I bet you people would be ripping him for not getting the world record.