Recently I saw a 50k ultra where the winner finished in 5hrs. 4000m elevation gain and 4000 elevation loss over rocky technical terrain .
With no amount of training I could come close to that time.
I get the feelings fast runners are genetically blessed and hard training is just polishing of the raw diamond.
What say you?
Shorter the distance more genetic base it is. Now for ultra marathon that dude could have been just done nothing but hiking and cycling and claim he has not been "training". Also, depends on his previous fitness level. I read last indoor track season Justyn Knight ran a 7:4x something 3k and was only in his second week back into training after taking a break after xc season.
Any world-class athlete in any sport is genetically gifted; they are just "different" from the rest of us. Yes, focus, discipline, drive, training, etc. are also important, but without the right genetic foundation all those other factors become meaningless; it would be like trying to build a house in a swamp.
Over the years I've heard numerous "inspirational" stories to the effect of how so-and-so was so uncoordinated he couldn't even walk properly in junior high, but then he followed his dream and trained hard and became a world beater. Nonsense.
How do you know you couldn't? What kind of training do you do? How do you know how close you could get? How do you know how much it's childhood and how much genetic?
Depends . . . . .. wrote:
Shorter the distance more genetic base it is. Now for ultra marathon that dude could have been just done nothing but hiking and cycling and claim he has not been "training". Also, depends on his previous fitness level. I read last indoor track season Justyn Knight ran a 7:4x something 3k and was only in his second week back into training after taking a break after xc season.
I think you misread. Opie said he doesn't think he could manage that with any training, not that the winner didn't train.
Karl La Verdad wrote:
it would be like trying to build a house in a swamp.
Um, ever heard of Venice?
It is 95% genetics unless you have great genetics. Then it is 100% hard work and mentality.
Karl La Verdad wrote:
Any world-class athlete in any sport is genetically gifted; they are just "different" from the rest of us. Yes, focus, discipline, drive, training, etc. are also important, but without the right genetic foundation all those other factors become meaningless; it would be like trying to build a house in a swamp.
Over the years I've heard numerous "inspirational" stories to the effect of how so-and-so was so uncoordinated he couldn't even walk properly in junior high, but then he followed his dream and trained hard and became a world beater. Nonsense.
Not nonsense; on the contrary it actually supports your point. According to Epstein, "Response to Training" is just as genetic as height.
theJeff wrote:
Karl La Verdad wrote:
Any world-class athlete in any sport is genetically gifted; they are just "different" from the rest of us. Yes, focus, discipline, drive, training, etc. are also important, but without the right genetic foundation all those other factors become meaningless; it would be like trying to build a house in a swamp.
Over the years I've heard numerous "inspirational" stories to the effect of how so-and-so was so uncoordinated he couldn't even walk properly in junior high, but then he followed his dream and trained hard and became a world beater. Nonsense.
Not nonsense; on the contrary it actually supports your point. According to Epstein, "Response to Training" is just as genetic as height.
Agreed, but the point of those stories is not that response to training is also genetic, but rather that someone metamorphosed from uncoordinated spaz to champion by virtue of hard work and mentality alone[/I, as @ howler pointed out above.
Everyone starts as an uncoordinated spaz, it's just a matter of when and how much you outgrow that.
Genetic wrote:
Recently I saw a 50k ultra where the winner finished in 5hrs. 4000m elevation gain and 4000 elevation loss over rocky technical terrain .
With no amount of training I could come close to that time.
lol not the greatest example. Literally 90+% of serious distance runners would CRUSH ultrarunning if they decided to step up. There are DIII 10k guys who could wake up tomorrow and win virtually any and every ultrarunning race.
Genetic wrote:
Recently I saw a 50k ultra where the winner finished in 5hrs. 4000m elevation gain and 4000 elevation loss over rocky technical terrain .
With no amount of training I could come close to that time.
I get the feelings fast runners are genetically blessed and hard training is just polishing of the raw diamond.
What say you?
I ran 3:32 for a 50k ultra on a difficult course in 85 degree heat and I do not talk about it amongst friend because I know they could have done it quicker.
One thing I learned from the Mike Rossi debacle is that hard work and determination can only do so much. The man was offered $200,000.00 to hit the marathon PR he already claimed to have. There was some lesser amount ($10,000.00) for breaking 20 in the 5k, and even on that he fell short.
If anyone had an incentive to train their butt off and make it happen, it was Rossi. And yet he didn't make it happen. There can be only one reason: no amount of training would enable him to hit those marks. His body simply was not capable.
I don't know what the percentage is but genetics far outweighs training in determining running performance.
howler wrote:
It is 95% genetics unless you have great genetics. Then it is 100% hard work and mentality.
This is the truest thing I’ve ever read on this site.
Lessons of Rossi wrote:
One thing I learned from the Mike Rossi debacle is that hard work and determination can only do so much. The man was offered $200,000.00 to hit the marathon PR he already claimed to have. There was some lesser amount ($10,000.00) for breaking 20 in the 5k, and even on that he fell short.
If anyone had an incentive to train their butt off and make it happen, it was Rossi. And yet he didn't make it happen. There can be only one reason: no amount of training would enable him to hit those marks. His body simply was not capable.
That’s not true. The reason he will never run those times is the reason he cheated in he first place - he’s too lazy to put in the work. Remember, this is a guy who doesn’t appear to have ever even had a full time job. He’s a wedding DJ. His whole life and lack of success in all aspects of it is because he is lazy. And a person overcoming their natural inclinations is very difficult. He doesn’t have the ability to work hard and he is a liar and a cheater. His personality problems are so significant and so deeply entrenched there is just no way he would ever put in the work - which is why he will always be a terrible runner and person.
Genetic talent is far more common than they choice to focus, train hard, take care of yourself, and sacrifice to be the best you can be. Hose traits are very rare. The ability to play sports at a high level is more common than we think.
This summer I coached a swim team. Perhaps 15 kids showed up semi-regularly, and out of those, I would say 2-3 have the ability to swim at the collegiate level if they chose to do so. That is a very small sample of potential talent, yet right there are gifted athletes that I made no effort to recruit. They just showed up.
However I am unsure if any are committed enough, or if their families are prepared to sacrifice as well, because parents have to be on bots too.
There is no way you would come close to that time. Maybe if it was flat, but with (as you say) 4000 m of climbing and decent? No way with no training.
High school team has 50 guys who all showed up all summer and put in equivalent work. They train through the season doing what the coach asks. One kid runs 15:30, two run 16:00, two run 16:30, five run 17:00, and the rest are spread from there to 24 minutes. One of the 16 minute kids was the biggest goofoff on the team and some of the 20 minute kids were the hardest workers. 95% genetics sounds right.
Great athletes aren't just born. They are born AND they work for it. Do you only get 5% better if you train? Of course not. So why then would 95% of your ability be dictated by predetermined factors? The fact is, we don't know how much is genetic and how much is trainable, but estimates generally indicate roughly a 50/50 split.
You’d be surprised how much your genetics can improve with training.
Mo Farah’s twin has the same genetics.