I thought I remembered reading somewhere that for NXN it has to be your school team, but I haven't been able to find that again. I can't remember if I read that on LR or a legit NXR website. Any links would be helpful, thanks.
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that for NXN it has to be your school team, but I haven't been able to find that again. I can't remember if I read that on LR or a legit NXR website. Any links would be helpful, thanks.
It has to be a school team. A few runners in our area (from different high schools) looked into it last year because they were all on school teams that wouldn't qualify so they wanted to make up their own team with top runners from different high schools from our district. It was a no go. Found it on the Nike NXN site and I believe they also talked to the region Nike NXN rep as well. That is a really cool concept if Nike would allow it ...make an "all-star" team from your region. Unfortunately that isn't allowed (at least last year it wasn't). Luckily a couple of the guys that were trying to do that qualified as individuals for their region anyways.
http://nxn.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=13&title_id=197&do=title&pg=1&folder_id=376&page_id=1322Bob Washington wrote:
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that for NXN it has to be your school team, but I haven't been able to find that again. I can't remember if I read that on LR or a legit NXR website. Any links would be helpful, thanks.
Linkykinklink wrote:
http://nxn.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=13&title_id=197&do=title&pg=1&folder_id=376&page_id=1322Bob Washington wrote:
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that for NXN it has to be your school team, but I haven't been able to find that again. I can't remember if I read that on LR or a legit NXR website. Any links would be helpful, thanks.
Thanks for the responses, but on the NXN website FAQs I still could not find anything specific about forming a club team instead of a school team. Since it is post-season and they have to call it a club, are they even allowed to limit it to HS specific teams? I mean, a club is a club and not a HS team necessarily.
When you go to actually register for one of the NXN regionals, it only allows for an "Unattached individual" or a "High School" team as a permitted category. "Club team" has red X through it. I assume that the next step once you pick and login is to select your high school, thus by default limiting it to high schools only and not club teams.
They establish their own rules so they are free to change them or disregard them. They want kids to be eligible for their high school team but they allowed a kid to compete last year who was ineligible. They also let junior high kids compete who are from states that don't allow it. You can always contact them if you have a questionable situation.
Try This:
All runners on a club "team" attempting to qualify for NXN:
(1) Must attend the same high school at the time of the NXN races
(2) Be in good standing at their high school. Being ineligible due to poor grades is OK if still on track to graduate. Disciplinary removal from a team is not OK, but NXN can not act accordingly if not told!
(3) Club "team" members are eligible for NXN even if they competed in other fall sports (e.g. soccer) and did not run CC officially for their high school team. Members only need to be students at that high school and in good standing.
(4) Junior high runners from States allowing junior high runners to compete varsity is OK for both teams and individuals. Approaching one-third of the country fits this situation.
(5) With State Association approval, junior high runners from States not allowing junior high runners to compete varsity may be allowed to run NXN as individuals at the discretion of NXN, but not as team members (just yet).
Thanks, this all makes sense I just hadnt found it yet and was struggling to. I had previously sent an email as well so I'm sure I'll get the same response as what you guys said.
Try This wrote:
(4) Junior high runners from States allowing junior high runners to compete varsity is OK for both teams and individuals. Approaching one-third of the country fits this situation.
(5) With State Association approval, junior high runners from States not allowing junior high runners to compete varsity may be allowed to run NXN as individuals at the discretion of NXN, but not as team members (just yet).
Nike likes the Junior high kids because they get alot of publicity for some reason, despite the fact that they are not really serious contenders. (Maybe the odd top 10).
It's also ussually not the best interest of the kids and they are being seriously exploited in my opinion.
It also muddies the water of a true National high school champion when allowing kids that aren't in high school.
Exploit much wrote:
Try This wrote:
(4) Junior high runners from States allowing junior high runners to compete varsity is OK for both teams and individuals. Approaching one-third of the country fits this situation.
(5) With State Association approval, junior high runners from States not allowing junior high runners to compete varsity may be allowed to run NXN as individuals at the discretion of NXN, but not as team members (just yet).
Nike likes the Junior high kids because they get alot of publicity for some reason, despite the fact that they are not really serious contenders. (Maybe the odd top 10).
It's also ussually not the best interest of the kids and they are being seriously exploited in my opinion.
It also muddies the water of a true National high school champion when allowing kids that aren't in high school.
you right. although, its really just middle school girls. no middle school guy could qualify. except for maybe the 1 in 20 billion.
Bob Washington wrote:
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that for NXN it has to be your school team, but I haven't been able to find that again. I can't remember if I read that on LR or a legit NXR website. Any links would be helpful, thanks.
I applaud what NXN is doing. AAU basketball messed this up, allowing crazy rules like grade level teams (eg 7th grade, There's a whole rules section on being held back) and creating super teams limited to bordering *states*.
To do other than NXN, you'd pop up the Milesplit rankings for your state, pick the top 7 or 10, and have 50 teams representing each year (ok, OK, maybe not Hawaii, Alaska or Maine ;). But openly, the fact that NXN exists, and isn't the " USATF xc HS nationals, sponsored by Nike", shows the void left by the governing body.
What I would like to know is whether a school "club" team could field TWO teams all with kids from the same school to run at NXR in the qualifying race. I know it would be a long shot to have 12-14 really good kids but if a team could put together two teams good enough, I think they should be able to compete. I bet there have been teams in the past who were deep enough to do this (maybe Great Oak girls?) and Loudoun Valley boys this year might be good enough to do this.
This is exactly what we are trying to do at Loudoun Valley. I have contacted Nike and they are resistant, but there is nothing in the rules that states that you cannot line up two teams (they have to be good enough to make the Championship race) from the same school. I believe my 2nd 7 would have a legitimate chance of qualifying for NXN.
I would like the Let's Run gang to offer constructive discussion on this. From my perspective as a coach, I have a bunch of boys that are not good enough to make the Loudoun Valley top 7 but are good enough to make the top 7 of every other team in the SE. Our 2nd 7 has 6 sub-10:00 3200 runners. Should NXR/NXN be about allowing the best to compete and qualify, or is having two teams asking too much? If you answer the latter, please give reasons why.
using that logic, the kenyan and ethiopian national teams should be permitted to have multiple teams each year at worlds, and would likely go 1,2,3.......in the team standings.
that obviously does not happen.
there have been many schools during the years of ntn/nxn who have had the same depth you have described yet have not sought nor been allowed to enter multiple teams.
one team per school district was is and should always be the way to go.
Good point, but you did not answer the "WHY"; WHY can't the Ethiopians/Kenyans have multiple teams at World Cross? WHY can't a high school team have multiple squads? We get multiple relays at NB Nationals, WHY do they allow that?
Mark, could your JV runners compete in the state meet as a team?
Marc Hunter wrote:
Good point, but you did not answer the "WHY"; WHY can't the Ethiopians/Kenyans have multiple teams at World Cross? WHY can't a high school team have multiple squads? We get multiple relays at NB Nationals, WHY do they allow that?
I believe a single high school should be allowed to run two club teams at an NXR Regional assuming both teams are good enough to be in the championship race.
But from NXN's perspective, there is a problem in one regard ... If both club teams are running for the same club having the same coach, it gives the club coach the opportunity to switch entries for NXN Nationals assuming both teams qualify (meaning inter-mixing runners between the two teams).
Example: Assuming your team(s) are good enough (and that's possible) ... at NXR Southeast your club team #1 uses runners #1, #3, #5, #7, #9, #11, and #13 and club team #2 uses runners #2, #4, #6, #8, #10, #12 and #14 from the high school varsity team ... those combinations just might be good enough to get both auto qualifying spots ... BUT at NXN Nationals, club team #1 decides to use the top 7 runners, so club team #2 is a watered-down team and that's not what NXN wants.
The answer might be two separate clubs with two separate names to prevent an intermix of runners.
Ahhh, a rhetorical question...but still no answer as to why two teams can't qualify for ______ (fill in the blank). Two points to make on your question: 1) The State meet is a high school meet, NXR is for "club" teams, 2) Not sure why the state meet only allows one team from each school. Again, you would think you would want the best teams at the state meet, or any championship meet for that matter.
I will admit I am playing Devil's Advocate, but I am really looking for an answer as to why it would not be good for two teams from the same school to run in a race when both teams legitimately qualify for that race. I would like to take a run at Nike if there are no moral/ethical reasons why we should not enter a second team at NXR SE. I am not looking for baseless opinions or rhetorical questions, and I would ask that you put yourself in my shoes - I am blessed with fast kids who I want to keep motivated and who are some of the best runners in the SE, and I would like to give them a chance to excel at the highest levels.
you realize that you can send your b team to nxn, at their expense, to run the open race. this has been done by many individuals and teams in the past for the same reasons as you have concerns with, if you really desire to have more of your kids run/race in the nxn experience.
back to your question:
why you ask? because the whole idea behind a national team championship is to have your very best represent your organizations from across the country in one team race. not to see how many top notch kids you can put into nationals.
congrats, your program is strong and deep. that has had the effect of bringing your best to their absolute zenith of performance headed into nationals. each of the kids not making the cut should have a sense of ownership in that they have had a significant stake making their nxn team that much better. also, they will be incentivized as they look forward to the next year as seniors graduate.
many top ncaa programs could make the same boast as you have, thereby arguing that more than one full team represent their school at ncaa's? several over the years, i am sure. however, this has not come up as an argument to my knowledge at the ncaa level either.
so, if it is proper for worlds to follow a one team protocol, if is is proper for ncaa's to follow a one team protocol, then why should it be any different at the hs level?
furthermore, what could occur if your argument was to prevail, would be to have top team scoring be affected by the finishing places of extra runners/teams from the same school. directly or indirectly, that could afford some teams an unfair advantage.
btw, and in closing, i am definitely not a 'big fish in a small pond' mindset type of person. i fully believe in creating, promoting, and sustaining excellence as a driving force in any endeavor. however, in sports, there have to be ground rules in a reasonable format. your track nationals example does not neatly fit in with what has traditionally been a team xc championship format, in that track and field, including relays, is still an individually driven sport whereas xc is team driven.
I am not sure what NXN wants, but you make a good point. First off, I would be too much of a chicken not to put my top 7 on team #1. If we did not qualify I would like an ass. Second, last year several of our individuals ran in the Championship race and one significantly outperformed two of our top 7. That kid went on to run for us at Nationals and I had to leave a kid home that [sadly] had a bad day at NXR.