Maximum mileage for runners who do one session a day?

Very generally I'd say around 75M in singles is where I top out, anything more than that and I'm going to start adding in some doubles 2 days a week. That's not just going out and slogging every day, that includes some quality work 2-3 days, and a long run of 15-20. I'm sure there are ultra folks that do much much more but I'm not considering a 40M long run or two 20's on back to back days as quality.

I usually end up closer to 85 before doubling while training for marathon.

Looking back at my 3 full marathon cycles, I hit 75 miles or more 16 times.

I doubled 5 of those weeks, with the mileage totals for the weeks that I doubled being 76 (first ever marathon cycle, near my highest ever mileage week) 80, 90, 91, 100. of those 12 weeks that were at or above 75 but in which I did not double, most were 80 or above. I never hit 90 or above without doubling.

I think the two schools of thought on doubling during marathon training are:

1. It is better to run some doubles because they beat your body up a little less and they result in HGH and other hormones being released in greater quantities since those hormones tend to be released for the first 30 minutes of exercise then level off (so you get two releases when you double compared to a single release when you run singles).

2. Getting in as many double digit/70 minute or longer singles as possible has the benefit of touching on your various glycogen stores (muscle stores, liver stores) and working through those stores more often may result in greater efficiency in switching between those stores over time. (Plus, there is the mental aspect of having a 10 or 11 miler seem like a normal day, which makes the 26 mile seem just a hint less intimidating).

Yuki Kawuachi:

http://japanrunningnews.blogspot.com/2017/03/the-miracle-in-fukuoka-real-talk-from.html?m=1

http://japanrunningnews.blogspot.com/2017/03/bringing-all-my-experience-into-play-in.html?m=1

http://japanrunningnews.blogspot.com/2017/03/the-lessons-of-past-are-not-outdated.html?m=1

The Lydiard system had people doing 100 miles each week in their main sessions, i.e., one run, with a second shorter, easier, run. So you'd have to think that people could run at least 100 a week in one run.

Bob Deines only trained once a day regularly ran more than a 100 miles a week. Quote:

Starting in the summer of 1967," Bob said, "I upped my mileage to about 90 miles a week. I was getting 100 to 110 in 1968 and have stayed at about that. I've even slowed down the pace since then -- if you can believe that -- to 7:30 to 8:00 and sometimes slower, usually just running two hours a day and three to four hours on either Saturday or Sunday.

"I might add that I never run more than once a day. Double workouts are too much added effort for the benefits gained. I'd much rather get in one solid, long run than two shorter ones. Besides, all that showering and changing is a big waste of time."

He ended up running a 2:20 and running a American record for 50 miles.

http://www.joehenderson.com/longslowdistance/home.php?article=2208

I always wonder why people like to point to what guys like Yuki or elites or record holders are doing as guidance for what the average person may want to do in their training.

These guys are, almost by definition, outliers. What they do, while interesting, should bear very little on what you or I should do.

Josh McDougal was doing 120, up to 130 mpw in singles while at Liberty. Pretty serious training, obviously. The problem is with a light class schedule and no second run to do, he destroyed himself in the weight room.

https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20791455/josh-mcdougal-at-a-crossroads/

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1565626

Personally, I like to incorporate doubles at around 70 mpw. I just would get bored, don't have enough places to run to do more than one run over 15 a week. For 100 mpw in singles, your shortest run has to be around 10, you never get a break really. Then when you take a down week, cutting hurts the guy training in singles much more than someone training in doubles. 100 mpw in singles = cutting back to like 70. 120-130 miles per week with doubles, you're cutting back to say 90, as you don't really cut the shorter runs.

I did 20 miles a run, sometimes a few miles more, as a soph/ Jr in college a long time ago. I often had 140-145 mile weeks that year. If I was tired, I'd skip a day (or two or several a week) as necessary, but not go lower than 20 miles in a run for most of the year. I wasn't a marathoner, but there were benefits, even though every run was basically the same (no faster workouts). The following year, I had gained so much fitness that I was doing 6 mile tempo runs under 5:00 pace, with mileage reduced to 90-95 miles per week.

I benefitted from being young and having my lifetime best recovery ability then. See other young guys like Jared Hazen, who podiumed at Western States 100 at age 19, training 200 miles a week at that age. There have been lots of young, successful ultrarunners in recent years, not sure of all their training. I personally couldn't keep that 20 miler as an every day run beyond age 22 or so.

And you had Ed Whitlock doing a single run of 2-3 hours a day.

Whitlock is an outlier, a genetic freak

Just joking

How did you avoid injury doing 20 mile singles

Smoove wrote:

I always wonder why people like to point to what guys like Yuki or elites or record holders are doing as guidance for what the average person may want to do in their training.

These guys are, almost by definition, outliers. What they do, while interesting, should bear very little on what you or I should do.

First, unlike how other elites train, most people can jog 10-16 miles a day. Also, I use the keep it simple stupid philosophy. Also, I believe in self experimentation. That is go run a hundred miles a week in singles and doubles. I have done both run a hundred miles a week in singles and doubles. And, from my experience my legs respond better to singles. Also, most people have jobs, a life and other choirs In their daily life that make running twice a day a hustle. So, why not make it easier for the average Joe and just jog for easy one-two hours once a day? This is a really underrated approach to training most people should try and experiment with. Just my 0.02

HRE wrote:

And you had Ed Whitlock doing a single run of 2-3 hours a day.

Another great example.

First of all quit using exceptions like one ore 2 elite runners to prove something. Cam ran over 140 miles a week with one week I believe being around 170ish that doesn't mean everyone should train like that. Have you ever looking into Jim Ryun's training? it's insane! "train like an individual" quote from the great Jack Daniel's

I know most high school and college runners running 6 days a week top out at 55 to 60 before adding a double. 65 to 70 if they are running 7 days a week. My body is a little more fragile then most so I add a double at 55. There's obviously people who's bodies can handle more, but after that point it starts to become difficult to recover, and I believe the common consensus is to start doubling after 55 or add a 7th day till you hit 70 and start doubling there.

Moto wrote:

How did you avoid injury doing 20 mile singles

If you ignore the pain and hobble through, your injury will eventually go away.

Why wouldn't you look to emulate the best? Anyway I had a teammate who did 105 in six runs per week.

Moto wrote:

How did you avoid injury doing 20 mile singles

I was injury proof my first 20+ years of running. Just built for it? I have a fast cadence, low impact stride. I'm Asian, so maybe it's not a coincidence that what suited me resembles what fast Asian marathoners have been known to do - extremely high mileage, but often very slow, even lots of walking. I had that part down too, unknowingly. I was walking an additional 6 miles a day then, walking all over the college and nearby every day (didn't have a car), so maybe 180 mpw on my feet if you include the walking. I also used the same shoes for thousands of miles (4300+ miles in one pair around that time), so there's no cushion much of the time, and it became kind of a minimalistic style.

Right on. Every thought there was my thinking process as well. I tried a handful of doubles when I was doing crazy high mileage, but it just didn't fit into my day as well, both practically and mentally. The running part didn't feel easier either with doubles for me either. That might have changed if I had given myself more time to adapt to doubles, but I was never a pro who needed to optimize my ultimate performance.

zzzz wrote:

Moto wrote:

How did you avoid injury doing 20 mile singles

I was injury proof my first 20+ years of running. Just built for it? I have a fast cadence, low impact stride. I'm Asian, so maybe it's not a coincidence that what suited me resembles what fast Asian marathoners have been known to do - extremely high mileage, but often very slow, even lots of walking. I had that part down too, unknowingly. I was walking an additional 6 miles a day then, walking all over the college and nearby every day (didn't have a car), so maybe 180 mpw on my feet if you include the walking. I also used the same shoes for thousands of miles (4300+ miles in one pair around that time), so there's no cushion much of the time, and it became kind of a minimalistic style.

What did you do the day before a race? Still run 20 miles? Take off?

I noticed that I had a lot more runs where I was feeling good in college. I was also walking a lot, maybe not 6 miles, though it could approach that some days. Now, I'm mostly sedentary except for runs and have days where my legs just don't feel fast more often. Maybe its just aging.