Briana Williams is an incredible talent. Just 16, she's just completed her sophomore year of school in HS in Miami , and she's the world U20 champ, beating a 10.99 sprinter who was third at NCAAs in the process. Given how big of a talent she is, given how she was US born and raised, I"m wondering why she competes for Jamaica internationally.
Normally, I assume people do it because the teams are easier to make, but she's so good, if she continues to progress, I don't think she'll have that much trouble making US teams down the road. Now this year, at age 15, it might have made a lot of sense as the odds of her beating a bunch of US collegians for the 2 team spots may not have been that great.
Since I am assuming the endorsement money would be way bigger for a US women's sprinter who ends up being really good - think Allyson Felix or SRR - I would assume most who could ultimately compete for the US would do so (not that money is everything, but this is a girl who was born in the US and lives here).
Does anyone know the thought process behind her decision? Might she still switch to the US? Is still true that you can compete as a junior and switch as a senior with no penalty.
I know I read it in terms of Sonia O'Sullivan's daughter. Her running for Ireland in the European youth champs doesn't mean she has to run for Ireland in the senior ranks. But that was an U18 meet. When does your competition for a country lock you in?
If she wants to compete for Jamaica to honor her heritage, all the more power to her, I just am curious as to the reasoning behind it all.
Update from Rojo on July 16. I found the answer. On an Irish website when talking about Sonia O'Sullivan's daughter, it says this, "The teenager can represent both countries up to U18 level, but will have to make a choice once she moves above that age bracket."
http://www.the42.ie/sophie-osullivan-u18-european-championships-4111092-Jul2018/
Can someone tell me why the US born and raised Briana Williams competes for Jamaica? Might she switch to USA?
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I found an article from May where she talked about her decision to run for Jamaica but I'm really wondering now if it's binding.
The Jamaica Observer wrote:
“It feels really great to run for Jamaica. When I was younger I would always travel to Jamaica to see my family and I fell in love with the country at first sight, and growing up I would always watch the Jamaican athletes running on TV and it amazed me. So that spurred the decision to represent Jamaica rather than USA,” Williams told the Jamaica Observer shortly before departing her home in Florida for Jamaica yesterday.
https://www.stlucianewsonline.com/us-born-sprinter-briana-williams-on-target-with-jamaican-dreams/ -
I don't think the penalty for competing for Jamaica rather than the US would be that large for a sprinter. Jamaica is probably the most track knowledgeable country in the world, at least for just the sprint events. This makes up for some of the penalty you might expect for it being a smaller and less wealthy country.
They also have a huge population living in developed nations, you would be advertising to them as well. The country itself is only 3 million, but their diaspora brings the total up to 5 million. Still a relatively small population, yes, but it's a "well qualified" group, as we would say in the marketing business. -
so it took you all of 8 minutes to answer your own question?
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Sdfsdfsdfsdfsdfsdf wrote:
I don't think the penalty for competing for Jamaica rather than the US would be that large for a sprinter. Jamaica is probably the most track knowledgeable country in the world, at least for just the sprint events.
It's not about having knowledgeable track fans. Theoretically in terms of endorsements, it's about having people with enough disposable income to buy a $150 to $200 shoe.
Now if a track athlete is way higher profile in a smaller country, then that can offset the smaller population. But an agent told me I"d be shocked by how little the average 2:05 marathoner makes in endorsements.
I'd love to see an article - and I've been saying we'd do this for year - where we get a bunch of agents to give us their guess for runners endorsement contracts.
Even comparing like
Kiprop
Willis
Centro
Andrews
Manangoi
Cheruiyot
that would fascinate me. -
s. brin wrote:
so it took you all of 8 minutes to answer your own question?
That article didn't really answer my question.
1) Athletes often give PR friendly answers to the media.
2) I still don't know at what age or level of competition your country locks in - that's big for me.
3) Nor do we know if a US sprinter would make more than a Jamaican -
Aisha Praught, Rai Benjamin. I don't understand the rules. Aren't all of these athletes American? They have real US birth certificates and they attend US public school where they break US High School records. I also would like to know like rojo if they are locked in.
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Predictor wrote:
Aisha Praught, Rai Benjamin. I don't understand the rules. Aren't all of these athletes American? They have real US birth certificates and they attend US public school where they break US High School records. I also would like to know like rojo if they are locked in.
There's a freeze on transferring athletic allegiances right now, so Rai Benjamin is unable to compete for the US at the moment. He is not locked in forever, and has intentions of competing for America, as he was raised here. -
I have heard about the freeze for Benjamin. I don't know how it applies to athletes who haven't participated at a high level though. What if a 13 year old girl gains US citizenship and she can run 15 minutes for 5k? She came here from Kenya and never competed in an IAAF event. Is that the limiting factor? If she ran 15 minutes last year in Kenya but never represented that country internationally, she can transfer allegiance to the US and compete immediately?
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this whole thread appears to based on an assumption that rojo has made concerning Sonia O'Sullivan's daughter having the right to change her affiliated nation. without that assumption, which I think is false, there would be no question concerning Briana Williams' running for the US.
you could always just read the rules.
In order to understand the relevant rule, you first need to know that IAAF Rule 1 defines competitions to which the rules apply. and the following parts of Rule 1 are relevant here:
1. (a) the World Athletics Series and the Olympic Games.
1. (b) The Athletics programme of Area, Regional or Group Games not confined to participants from a single Area where the IAAF does not have exclusive control.
1. (c) Regional or Group Championships in Athletics not confined to participants from a single Area.
1. (f) Area Championships and other intra-Area competitions organised by an Area Association.
1. (g) The Athletics programme of Area, Regional or Group Games, and Regional or Group Championships in Athletics confined to participants from a single Area.
those are the competitions defined under Rule 1. 1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g), that get mentioned a lot in Rule 5.
Rule 5 deals with Eligibility to Represent a member (nations are members of the IAAF and athletes represent members).
Rule 5
1. In International Competitions held under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g), Members shall be represented only by athletes who are Citizens of the Country (or Territory) which the affiliated Member represents and who comply with the eligibility requirements of this Rule 5.
2. An athlete who has never competed in an International Competition under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g) shall be eligible to represent a Member in an International Competition under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g) if he is a Citizen of the Country (or Territory) by virtue of having been born or by virtue of having a parent or grandparent born in the Country (or Territory).
3. Subject to Rule 5.4, an athlete who has represented a Member in an International Competition held under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g) shall not be eligible to represent another Member in an International Competition held under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g).
4. An athlete who has represented a Member in an International Competition under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g) shall be eligible to represent another Member in an International Competition under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g) (with immediate effect unless otherwise stated) in the following circumstances only:
(a) if the Country (or Territory) of the Member is subsequently incorporated in another Country that is or subsequently becomes a Member; (b) if the Country (or Territory) of the Member ceases to exist and the athlete becomes a Citizen as of right of a newly formed Country ratified by Treaty or otherwise recognised at international level that subsequently becomes a Member; (c) if the Territory of the Member does not have a National Olympic Committee and an athlete qualifies to compete at the Olympic Games for the Territory’s parent Country. In such a case, the athlete’s representation of the Territory’s parent Country at the Olympic Games shall not affect his eligibility to continue to compete for the relevant Member Territory in other International Competitions under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g). emphasis added.
I didn't see anything in there that made the rules age specific. the defining criteria seems to be the category of competition an athlete participates in. if you compete in an even not covered by Rule 1. 1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g), then it appears that you can still choose who to compete for. but once you've competed in a competition defined under Rule 1. 1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g), you're locked in.
cheers. -
At this point, Its not about the money. It's the pride one gets that is deep rooted and exhilarating. Briana's mother is from Jamaica. Briana is Jamaican. The fact she is being raised in the USA is great...much more opportunity and choices in life are good to have.
In terms of money, yes, its undeniable. Should she rise to the level of SRR, who is also Jamaican by heritage if not more, the financial incentive and long term return is greater.
I have always wondered if SRR is missing a part of her soul because at the end of the day if she had to do it over again, would she rather have represented the land of wood and water? -
Maybe she wants to compete on relays who get the stick around?
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The original question asked why. That is the troubling part regarding some of these athletes who are world class. They are Americans. Why would you want to wear the uniform of another country if you are an American?
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I always thought Felix Sanchez could have made a lot more money competing for USA. Watched him dominate preps in California. Also US born I believe.
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rojo wrote:
s. brin wrote:
so it took you all of 8 minutes to answer your own question?
That article didn't really answer my question.
1) Athletes often give PR friendly answers to the media.
2) I still don't know at what age or level of competition your country locks in - that's big for me.
3) Nor do we know if a US sprinter would make more than a Jamaican
how did it not answer your question? The question in the subject line is asking why she competes for Jamaica. In the article you posted she clearly describes why she runs for Jamaica. As for whether or not she will switch to the USA, seems like she's the only one who would know the answer to that question.
Your questions about IF she can compete for the USA in the future are good follow up questions, and based on the Rai Benjamin case it seems that if she tried to transfer allegiances now it would not go through (but I'm no expert) -
Cottonshirt wrote:
this whole thread appears to based on an assumption that rojo has made concerning Sonia O'Sullivan's daughter having the right to change her affiliated nation. without that assumption, which I think is false, there would be no question concerning Briana Williams' running for the US.
you could always just read the rules.
In order to understand the relevant rule, you first need to know that IAAF Rule 1 defines competitions to which the rules apply. and the following parts of Rule 1 are relevant here:
1. (a) the World Athletics Series and the Olympic Games.
1. (b) The Athletics programme of Area, Regional or Group Games not confined to participants from a single Area where the IAAF does not have exclusive control.
1. (c) Regional or Group Championships in Athletics not confined to participants from a single Area.
1. (f) Area Championships and other intra-Area competitions organised by an Area Association.
1. (g) The Athletics programme of Area, Regional or Group Games, and Regional or Group Championships in Athletics confined to participants from a single Area.
those are the competitions defined under Rule 1. 1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g), that get mentioned a lot in Rule 5.
Rule 5 deals with Eligibility to Represent a member (nations are members of the IAAF and athletes represent members).
Rule 5
1. In International Competitions held under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g), Members shall be represented only by athletes who are Citizens of the Country (or Territory) which the affiliated Member represents and who comply with the eligibility requirements of this Rule 5.
2. An athlete who has never competed in an International Competition under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g) shall be eligible to represent a Member in an International Competition under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g) if he is a Citizen of the Country (or Territory) by virtue of having been born or by virtue of having a parent or grandparent born in the Country (or Territory).
3. Subject to Rule 5.4, an athlete who has represented a Member in an International Competition held under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g) shall not be eligible to represent another Member in an International Competition held under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g).
4. An athlete who has represented a Member in an International Competition under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g) shall be eligible to represent another Member in an International Competition under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g) (with immediate effect unless otherwise stated) in the following circumstances only:
(a) if the Country (or Territory) of the Member is subsequently incorporated in another Country that is or subsequently becomes a Member; (b) if the Country (or Territory) of the Member ceases to exist and the athlete becomes a Citizen as of right of a newly formed Country ratified by Treaty or otherwise recognised at international level that subsequently becomes a Member; (c) if the Territory of the Member does not have a National Olympic Committee and an athlete qualifies to compete at the Olympic Games for the Territory’s parent Country. In such a case, the athlete’s representation of the Territory’s parent Country at the Olympic Games shall not affect his eligibility to continue to compete for the relevant Member Territory in other International Competitions under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g). emphasis added.
I didn't see anything in there that made the rules age specific. the defining criteria seems to be the category of competition an athlete participates in. if you compete in an even not covered by Rule 1. 1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g), then it appears that you can still choose who to compete for. but once you've competed in a competition defined under Rule 1. 1(a), (b), (c), (f) or (g), you're locked in.
cheers.
Rojo thanks you for doing what he was too lazy to do himself. -
Awhagwan wrote:
At this point, Its not about the money. It's the pride one gets that is deep rooted and exhilarating. Briana's mother is from Jamaica. Briana is Jamaican. The fact she is being raised in the USA is great...much more opportunity and choices in life are good to have.
In terms of money, yes, its undeniable. Should she rise to the level of SRR, who is also Jamaican by heritage if not more, the financial incentive and long term return is greater.
I have always wondered if SRR is missing a part of her soul because at the end of the day if she had to do it over again, would she rather have represented the land of wood and water?
re: "missing a part of her soul"
Why would she be missing a part of her soul competing for the country in which she live, her parents live, where she was educated and trained. This is the country where her coach, agent, husband, and child lives. Please tell me what Jamaica did for her that would cause her to regret representing the land of wood and water? -
The whole idea of competing "for" countries is out-dated.
Why be so jingoistical in the first place? -
Can some one summarize in layman's terms cottonshirts post as it applies to juniors.
Particularly does U20 worlds count against an athlete? Jr Bupa xc? Pan-Am juniors?
If U20 athlete runs senior worlds then yes it's obvious but what other international races. -
It's simple. Jamaica doesn't do out of competition testing.
