Anyone have success with Jack Daniels half marathon plan?

If you're going to run Daniels, then run Daniels. Commit to the plan. I can understand backing off the pace to adjust for altitude, or reducing the number of repetitions at the start out of caution, but Daniels's R pace should be close to your mile pace. Replacing it with your HM pace doesn't make sense in the context of Daniels's training system.

half runner wrote:

I'm currently using his half plan from the 3rd edition. I just started phase 2 and am planning on maxing out at 65 mpw. I am cautious about about all of the R work this early. I have always run better on more mileage with less intervals. I am also at 5000 feet altitude so I'm adjusting all the paces to match my altitude fitness level. And because I've never run that great off of hard intervals I'm thinking it might be beneficial to replace the R pace with goal half marathon pace just to be safe.

I've never heard of this plan you mention, but I've been on a Jack Daniels plan for years. After finishing the run or workout I have two shots of Jack Daniels usually with Coke or Pepsi. During intense training for an upcoming race I'm training for, I will fore go the Coke/Pepsi and just go straight on the rocks.

Bump

Replacing R pace with HM pace seems a bit off. The purpose of his R pace is to work on running economy and speed. You’re not going to be getting any of that benefit if you’re running those 400s at HMP. The slowest that I would go is 5K pace and that might be too slow.

I followed his Half Marathon plan about a year ago, but got injured once I hit Phase III. I think part of the reason was the back-to-back Q days he recommends. It was too much for me. I didn't feel terrible going into the second Q day, but I certainly didn't feel rested.

If I followed his plan again, I'd probably adjust it to have two days between Q sessions, but that's just me.

I don't know what the 3rd edition HM plan looks like, but I used his 5-15K plan from the 2nd edition to the letter except with slightly longer long runs. I effing killed my race. Huge PR, negative split. I was hard as steel.

Do those R workouts. It will pay off.

Best race of my life wrote:

I don't know what the 3rd edition HM plan looks like, but I used his 5-15K plan from the 2nd edition to the letter except with slightly longer long runs. I effing killed my race. Huge PR, negative split. I was hard as steel.

Do those R workouts. It will pay off.

Good to know, I have both editions and considered doing this because I think he is more detailed in his second edition. Hoping to run sub 1:08, maybe sub 1:07 on a really good day.

I like to start with hill sprints as R reps to condition my legs before transitioning to the track. Might give that a try if you're worried about injury.

I've run 1:11 in my 40s with both a Daniels influenced marathon training approach and with a Daniels influenced 5k/10k approach, and I have coached an athlete to a 1:04 during a Daniels influenced marathon training cycle. I think the vo2max stuff and the high volume threshold/cruise interval workouts were the keys for me. I did not do any work at rep pace other than stuff I may have done prior to the main cycle. I did include some rep work for the 1:04 guy, and I also added in vo2max work throughout his marathon cycle.

So I think the rep work is nice, but not absolutely necessary, the vo2max work is necessary, and the threshold work is absolutely critical. If the rep work is beating you up, you could add some low volume rep work before and after your cruise intervals on threshold days (3-4 x 200 with 200 jog; 3-4 minutes recovery; normal cruise interval workout; 3-4 minutes recovery; 3-4 x 200 with 200 jog) and get the vast majority of the running economy benefits you would otherwise get from a more full-bodied rep workout.

To my understanding, the R workouts should NOT be that taxing. Take long recoveries. If your recovery TIMES (jog 200 in 1:30-2:00 if you have to) are too short they can be very taxing.

Think of R workouts as long strides or a middle ground between easy strides and hard VO2Max sessions. Should be relaxed and are mostly helping with efficiency.

They are placed in phase 2 for a specific reason. It will later on make your VO2Max and T pace stuff easier because you hopefully have increased efficiency at faster paces. Once you do enough R pace work you will be prepared to start really taxing yourself with longer reps and shorter recovery.

If you drop your R pace workouts you will not be able to maximize your work done at other paces. All paces are important.

Just my interpretation.

half runner wrote:

I have always run better on more mileage with less intervals.

This says at all. There are better methods out there for runners like you. Why Daniels?

my 2c wrote:

If you're going to run Daniels, then run Daniels. Commit to the plan. I can understand backing off the pace to adjust for altitude, or reducing the number of repetitions at the start out of caution, but Daniels's R pace should be close to your mile pace. Replacing it with your HM pace doesn't make sense in the context of Daniels's training system.

This guy makes sense.

half runner wrote:

I'm currently using his half plan from the 3rd edition. I just started phase 2 and am planning on maxing out at 65 mpw. I am cautious about about all of the R work this early. I have always run better on more mileage with less intervals. I am also at 5000 feet altitude so I'm adjusting all the paces to match my altitude fitness level. And because I've never run that great off of hard intervals I'm thinking it might be beneficial to replace the R pace with goal half marathon pace just to be safe.

I have run 14:20 5 k , 29.51 10k and half in 1.06 with another system than Daniels, but with Daniel`s paces. I coach a

1.01:40 half guy ( up at 1600m altitude and 8 sec from world best ever!) who trains at 2200m altitude (7200 feet) . The thing is that you shall never run "hard" intervals, just perfect controlled up to your capacity. Just run one maxVO2 and one LT-paced interval every week and you will see that you will improve . Also add the specific long run with fast finish at LT-pace in intervals or sustained for 10-40 min. Good luck!

-The Magic Wizard -

This is really bad advice. The whole point of R work is to support and prepare you for the V and later T/ specific work.

I also love how the justification for not doing R work is that this guy ran 1:11 at 40 as if that’s meaningful.

To the OP: as others have said R work shouldn’t be that taxing. If it is either you are doing it wrong or you have some severe deficiencies as a runner, which you should fix! R work doesn’t mean 800/mile simulation type workouts. It’s 800/mile paced reps with full recovery. It’s meant to teach better mechanics, improve proprioception, and recruit more muscles.

46 actually, but your point is taken. Actually, no it's not - my relative success using a modified Daniels approach and the success of others I've coached with a similar approach is relevant as it evidences real world success without a heavy rep emphasis.

Look, I agree with your points about the benefits of rep work and have advocated those points here repeatedly. And that rep work the rep work would be great to do, as I noted. But you could get the vast bulk of that benefit by making it a secondary part of a workout.

In fact Smoove`s advice is very good! I also see in my coaching that the most important factors for the result are vo2max work, LT work (cruise intervals) and aerob power work.

Says anonymous poster to register poster.

I have a theory too wrote:

Actual knower of things wrote:

This is really bad advice. ...

Says anonymous poster to register poster.

Hi smooze!

I agree with Smoove on this one. I am actually very well versed in training theories especially for the 5K, 10K and marathon. Half marathon is just that odd distance to train for since it is right in between threshold and marathon pace so I figured I should follow a more structured plan until I figure out what works for me. The R work only threw me off because I'm a big Lydiard guy and alarm bells go off when I see intervals this early in the training block (even though they are not at a really hard effort).

The Daniels training at this point is close to what I would have prescribed for myself for 10K training with the exception that I would have replaced the R work with fartlek running and some short uphill sprints. I'm also a big Lydiard guy so I think I would of added a few more marathon pace runs this early. I have found it more benneficial to run by feel and end every workout like I could do much more, so I'm not a big fan of the exact times Daniels prescribes but I think I can make it work by doing the workouts at the right feel and effort.

Thanks for the feedback. I think I will stick with it and treat the R workouts like relaxed strides and occasionally throw in some short hill sprints after easy runs.