Comrades Marathon (Ultra Pace)

that is moving.

many ultras can be slow as they are run on dirt trails and the ground can be difficult to run on with the tree roots and rocks..

many courses have constant hills which slow the pace down.

Yuki Kawuachi would do well at the comrades marathon.

2017 'up'champion Camille Herron was injured and did not compete in this years 'down' race.

Sand Dunes wrote:

Yuki Kawuachi would do well at the comrades marathon.

I think it would be super exciting to come up with like a quarter million and offer it to someone like Eliud Kipchoge a week before the race and see what he could do. I'd love to see some super elite marathons in their with them just running on talent and not having spent years figure out how ultras work.

Here is a recap of this year's race.

rojo wrote:

I think it would be super exciting to come up with like a quarter million and offer it to someone like Eliud Kipchoge a week before the race and see what he could do. I'd love to see some super elite marathons in their with them just running on talent and not having spent years figure out how ultras work.

Here is a recap of this year's race.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/06/2018-comrades-bongmusa-mthembu-repeated-ann-ashworth-pulled-off-upset-womens-race/

Comrades history is littered with failed attempts by super quick marathoners, including Gert Thys (multiple sub 2:07) and Willie Mtolo

That said, the 'Up' record is held by Leonid Shvetsov at 5:24 (two time OG marathoner and a best of 2:10), but he had several goes at Ultras to learn the craft, while the 'down' is held by David Gatebe at 5:18 ('only a 2:13 marathoner) with Shvetsov second best.

Shvetsov's past is also tainted by drug suspicions though. He is a big bloke for a quick marathoner, let alone ultra marathoner

I'm suspicious of all them Russian names in the list. A lot of dirt in this race. I'd personally literally like to see Bekele do this after he gets the marathon world record. I'm sure he could brake 5 hours on either up or down.

Mr. Banana Bread, there is no way Bekele will run sub 5 at Comrades, it won't happen. This is like saying Bolt will go sub 2 in the marathon, he just needs a few 10 mile runs. Comrades is different, the route profile is brutal both up and down. I think this is only understood by people who have gone past 60km at Comrades.

I think the up and down profile would suit Bekele. He is great at hills. Look at his cross country, his Great Ireland Run, Great North Run and recent Bern 10 miller. They were all hilly and he destroyed the field. Bekele is more suited to hilly road races then flat road races.

rojo wrote:

I think it would be super exciting to come up with like a quarter million and offer it to someone like Eliud Kipchoge a week before the race and see what he could do. I'd love to see some super elite marathons in their with them just running on talent and not having spent years figure out how ultras work.

/

It would be really exciting but even elite marathoners without specific ultra training would simply bonk and fade.

They're simply not used to run 90km at a good clip in the heat and fueling properly, no way thet can succeed rushing in the race.

Banana Bread wrote:

I'd personally literally like to see Bekele do this after he gets the marathon world record. I'm sure he could brake 5 hours on either up or down.

You need brain surgery.

Your going to need heart surgery. It's not good for you to get mad so easy bro. Smile, don't you know god loves you. Come to think of it I love you to. Take the time to smile at someone and before your through, someone will be smiling back at you.

rojo wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

Yuki Kawuachi would do well at the comrades marathon.

I think it would be super exciting to come up with like a quarter million and offer it to someone like Eliud Kipchoge a week before the race and see what he could do. I'd love to see some super elite marathons in their with them just running on talent and not having spent years figure out how ultras work.

Here is a recap of this year's race.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/06/2018-comrades-bongmusa-mthembu-repeated-ann-ashworth-pulled-off-upset-womens-race/

That would be so interesting! No one doubts that Eliud Kipchoge is one of the greatest distance runners alive, but still I would predict either a DNF or a fade to outside of the top 10 if he just jumped into Comrades without any physical or mental preparation (just out of marathon training).

Banana Bread wrote:

I'm suspicious of all them Russian names in the list. A lot of dirt in this race. I'd personally literally like to see Bekele do this after he gets the marathon world record. I'm sure he could brake 5 hours on either up or down.

You're suspicious of the Russian names then you name an Ethiopian? East Africans have dope pouring out of their ears!

The “super elite” marathoners would not do well at Comrades, and the common assumption that a marathoner could just move up and do well is a fallacy that ignores the physiological differences in the two races. Though I don’t disagree that it would be entertaining, because it would be nice to see Kipchoge finally fail at something! As someone mentioned above, Comrades, unlike any other ultra, has had a glut of very accomplished marathoners who didn’t pan out. A lot of good South African marathoners (sub 2:10) in the 80s tried and couldn’t hang with the top Comrades guys over the distance.

The best way to think about the relationship between marathon ability and fast ultra ability like Comrades (technical trails are a different story) is like the 800 and the 1500. At the highest elite end, the physiology of the guys doing well in each precludes them from doing well in the other. Likewise, for Comrades and the marathon, a great Comrades runner has to have good (but not world class marathon ability) much like a Olympic medalist in the 1500 has to have good (but not Olympic finalist potential) in the 800. Kipchoge at Comrades would be Rudisha in the 1500. Entertaining? Yes. Successful (without a lot of specific preparation)? Probably not.

The likes of Kipchoe and Bekele would, as someone mentioned above, either DNF or fail to crack the top 10 without a long block of very specific preparation, and even that may not guarantee success. The only elite marathoner right now that I’d fear at Comrades is Yuki, but even he cracked pretty badly on a much shorter ultra a few weeks ago.

Banana Bread wrote:

Your going to need heart surgery. It's not good for you to get mad so easy bro. Smile, don't you know god loves you. Come to think of it I love you to. Take the time to smile at someone and before your through, someone will be smiling back at you.

Does God literally love you?

Sand Dunes wrote:

Yuki Kawuachi would do well at the comrades marathon.

One would expect him too, but the race was cooler than usual this year. It's often quite hot and Yuki tends not to do well in the heat.

Msubathi wrote:

Bongmusa Mthembu (SA) just won the Comrades Marathon in 3:37 per km! The distance was 90km. That gives you 2h32 for marathon! Steve Way (British) was third @3:43 per km. If you think Ultra Marathons are slow, come to South Africa

They run these speeds in the united states too

Msubathi wrote:

Bongmusa Mthembu (SA) just won the Comrades Marathon in 3:37 per km! The distance was 90km. That gives you 2h32 for marathon! Steve Way (British) was third @3:43 per km. If you think Ultra Marathons are slow, come to South Africa

The ultra distances make sense on the trails, but 56 miles on the road is just an incredible test of physical and mental fortitude. I can't imagine the way the legs would be screaming at mile 40. Major props to those runners.

rojo wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

Yuki Kawuachi would do well at the comrades marathon.

I think it would be super exciting to come up with like a quarter million and offer it to someone like Eliud Kipchoge a week before the race and see what he could do. I'd love to see some super elite marathons in their with them just running on talent and not having spent years figure out how ultras work.

I would share your enthusiasm at seeing some top level marathon talent take a crack at Comrades, or any longer race for that matter. However, as we know, speed at shorter distances doesn't always translate to longer. Not only 5000m runners to the marathon, even Tadese with his half marathon accolades. The discrepancy puzzles me, but it's clearly there, and it's not as if these runners don't have financial incentives to do well at the marathon. There certainly have been fast (2:10 or faster) runners trying ultradistance races for the last 30-40 years. The great British marathoner, Ian Thompson (2:09) won his single London to Brighton in 1980, though it was 2nd place finisher Allan Kirik (unremarkable mid-2:20s marathoner) of NYC who broke open that race. London to Brighton, raced in early fall, was in those days the de facto world championship of ultrarunning, and Comrades held in the late spring, was the other most competitive ultra around.

Even those with experience and relative comfort with some of these longer distances, Most recently at the 100 km WC, South Africa fielded top level Comrades talent. They won the team race, could and should have taken the individual title too (somewhat poorly managed pacing led to their digging their own grave). Even Barney Klecker (2:15 marathon; 4:51:25 AR for 50 miles - < one minute off WR) never ran a "quality" 100km. There is a reason only six men in history have cracked 6:20 for 100km.

Of note, many South African road specialists don't necessarily have shorter distance PBs that are of any use for analysis, as they may only be in peak form for their odd distance races such as Two Oceans or Comrades, which can be of varying distances year to year, and both of which are undulating courses frequently raced in the heat.

A brief note regarding the solo 50km "WR attempt" earlier this year held on the track. Fans of competitive running often prefer bonafide competition to staged record attempts, and vastly prefer records achieved in the course of competition. It is worth noting that 2:10 (point to point, net downhill) marathoner, Thompson Magawana ran his 50km WR of 2:43:38 a split (certified, record eligible splits are taken at that race) enroute to his 1988 Two Oceans victory.