Man, the 5000m has really gone downhill.

anacondarunner wrote:

Today's race in Stockholm was purportedly "fast," with Barega & Co. sticking to the rabbits ... and the winning time was 13:04 (a world lead, no less).

WTF has happened to this once great event?

While it's easy to attribute the slower times to improved drug testing, marathon times are faster than ever. 1500 times have still been strong, too.

Is it too much to ask for a race in which Barega, Kejelcha, Chelimo, Cheserek, Cheptegei, Gebrehiwet et al. go out with pacers at, say, 12:50 pace and stick to it in the middle kilometers? I mean, the Paris 2012 Diamond League wasn't THAT long ago...

They can only micro dose Anaconda, this tells you how much was once in the sport. 12:50 is probably just too fast for them.

Uh, yes is too much to ask. Pros get paid for their PLACE of finish not for running a particular time. If you want to put up $5,000 bonuses for every runner to break 12:50 I'm sure you'll get some takers. The Paris race was fast because the Ethiopians had to run fast times to impress their Olympic selection committee .

Track is garbage nowadays because most runners go straight to the marathon due to its popularity- more money on the road. This is why a mediocre runner like Farah rose.

Track 5k and 10k are outdated events.

anacondarunner wrote:

While it's easy to attribute the slower times to improved drug testing, marathon times are faster than ever. 1500 times have still been strong, too.

I mean, the Paris 2012 Diamond League wasn't THAT long ago...

Well, first some facts:

- The last marathon world record was in 2014.

- At least until 2014, you could bribe yourself out of a ban, thanks to Diack's system.

- Paris 2012 was 9 seconds slower than the world record.

- The only athletes running 3:26/3:27 in this decade were a drug cheat and his buddy, a combined three times.

But yes, the marathon is a lot faster now than it was, say, from 1995 - 2005. The ever increasing walls of pacers help there, as does the money.

As for doping, yes, athletes have to limit their Hct increases to 10 - 15%, IF they want to play it safe. Otherwise they end up on the likely doping list and have to deal with increased testing like Rupp, Farah, and... Kiprop.

Combining the above: it would appear that the ideal Hct concentration for the marathon is smaller than for the 5000 m. Or everything is a coincidence, right?

Less in competition testing with the marathon, apart from Yuki of course. If you run in non-WMM events testing is nil.

Les wrote:

Uh, yes is too much to ask. Pros get paid for their PLACE of finish not for running a particular time. If you want to put up $5,000 bonuses for every runner to break 12:50 I'm sure you'll get some takers.

Most of their shoe contracts have time bonuses.

5k runners aren’t fearless anymore. Say what you want about Bekele, but he at least went for fast times from the gun. And these guys wonder why they didn’t run fast. Dudes aren’t gonna, for example, break 13 minutes for the first time if they always expect someone else to lead and do the work. That’s why races end up slower than expected. If Chelimo wants the American record he needs to actually go for it. He’s not even following his own motto of “go hard or suffer for the rest of your life”. If he does what he did at USAs last summer he can run under 13 and challenge the AR.

Slower times are 100% a result of improved testing in Kenya and Ethiopia.

I think a lot of it has to do with these guys getting paid for place rather than time bonuses. The Stockholm 5k went out at a good pace, but those guys just coasted when rhe pacer left the track and saved it for the last 300m. They have no incentive to run fast except for personal glory and every incentive to just hold off for the finishing sprint for placing rather than bonk hard and finish 10th.

holy crap those 2012 5k times are nuts. those guys must have been doped to the gills

Goucher Needles wrote:

Slower times are 100% a result of improved testing in Kenya and Ethiopia.

Because Americans are running faster than ever, right?

5k and 10k world records have also been put out of reach by dopers. Even the guys who dope now can't touch them, because they can't dope to that same degree. Removes a big part of the incentive and excitement of gunning for a super fast time.

You´re really trying hard to fit your argument into the "the were all on drugs in the 90s-2000s" dogma so popular on LRC.

anacondarunner wrote:

Today's race in Stockholm was purportedly "fast," with Barega & Co. sticking to the rabbits ... and the winning time was 13:04 (a world lead, no less).

WTF has happened to this once great event?

While it's easy to attribute the slower times to improved drug testing, marathon times are faster than ever. 1500 times have still been strong, too.

Is it too much to ask for a race in which Barega, Kejelcha, Chelimo, Cheserek, Cheptegei, Gebrehiwet et al. go out with pacers at, say, 12:50 pace and stick to it in the middle kilometers? I mean, the Paris 2012 Diamond League wasn't THAT long ago...

Not to mention the near invisibility of the Kenyans in the race. They must really be feeling the heat after Kiprop (although they got the 1000m win).

matt80 wrote:

Track 5k and 10k are outdated events.

Bach, Berry, and the Beatles, the mile, readin’ books and retrospection are also “outdated” and yet still enthrall many of us luddites.

Please leave my name out of this. All I do is go hard. Most people are soft and don't want to try and race.

I've gone from the gun at USA Indoors last year and nobody joined.

I did it again at outdoors and set the Championship record and again, not one person joined.

Go hard or suffer the rest of your life is the motto. I'd rather get last place knowing I died trying. Find me a race where all those other athletes in your mention actually go with the pacer from the gun instead of changing plans once the gun goes off.

While I'm here, maybe a RD can give financial incentives if splitting the 3K and 4K at a specific split. Maybe that'll help the others. As for me, just know I'm always ready to get after a fast time. I want nothing more than to be the next AR holder.

anacondarunner wrote:

Today's race in Stockholm was purportedly "fast," with Barega & Co. sticking to the rabbits ... and the winning time was 13:04 (a world lead, no less).

WTF has happened to this once great event?

While it's easy to attribute the slower times to improved drug testing, marathon times are faster than ever. 1500 times have still been strong, too.

Is it too much to ask for a race in which Barega, Kejelcha, Chelimo, Cheserek, Cheptegei, Gebrehiwet et al. go out with pacers at, say, 12:50 pace and stick to it in the middle kilometers? I mean, the Paris 2012 Diamond League wasn't THAT long ago...

Last year only two guys in the world ran faster than Ovett and Maree at their best.

In all actuality the 1500m is just as slow in terms of talent. The only reason we've had remotely fast times are because Kiprop set them up at Monaco 2012-2017 (and even 2017 Monaco was only won in 3:31). It's a lot easier to set up a fast 800m and 1500m than a 5k, but the talent level in all the events is the same. It would be crazy to think that the talent now couldn't go 12:45-12:55, but people just have to commit. Now a days we have Cheroyout and Manangoi going 3:31-3:32 winning DL races, that's not that much more impressive than 13:00-13:05, if not the same.