Patriot Leaguers, can you please tell me why in heck you run multi-section finals at your outdoor conference champs?

So that the meet fits into a weekend and we can be back at class.

TheLastAmateurs wrote:

So that the meet fits into a weekend and we can be back at class.

Other conference meets are two days and have the full prelim / final setup though.

The format probably makes more sense if coaches want to double their athletes (less races to run). Practicing 'rounds' only makes sense if you qualify for regionals / plan on qualifying for NCAAs, which a lot of conference scorers won't end up doing anyways.

The events you're asking about are not prelims, they're finals run on time. It's not common, but there have been placers who have come out of the slower heats. Fifth place in the men's 800 came out of the second fastest heat this year. As to the hurdles specifically, you could as easily ask why they don't run the 110s for time as they do in the 400. Maybe they don't want to invest the time it takes to set up the 400 hurdles more than once. . As I recall, the Pennsylvania Conference did the same thing decades ago when I ran there and I've seen other conference championships do that . From my observation, and there has been a good bit of that in the past 50 plus years, it seems that events run on the straightaway have qualifying heats and a later final while events that require running a turn are done in sections for time pretty regularly.

Correction

Part of this should have read that "events requiring the running of more than one turn" are done as finals on time.

Philosophically the PL was more like a D3 conference in that some of the schools didn't have a policy (or at least much of one) around students missing class for athletic events. This has probably change somewhat since I was there. Because of that, the conference was constrained to a weekend. Then to you point, schools that want to win have their best athletes compete in 2,3, or more events because the talent isn't that deep. Specifically, somebody who can qualify for regionals in an event can probably score (or even win) in several events at the Patriot League meet.

The Atlantic 10 Conference did finals on time for the 1500m last weekend, and they had 31 competitors for the men and 36 competitors for the women. They did prelims and finals for the 800m and shorter events.

https://www.tfrrs.org/results/56956_m.html

https://www.tfrrs.org/results/56956_f.html

I was at the A10s in 2007, and looking back at the schedule from that meet, they did prelims only for the 100m dash and high hurdles as everything else was finals on time. Schedule below:

http://www.atlantic10.com/fls/31600/old_site/pdf/c-otrack/scheduleoutdoorevents.pdf?SPSID=799923&SPID=136212&DB_OEM_ID=31600

I don't think it was just due to number of entries - I think it was just "done" in order to streamline the meet.

I know at the same time, the indoor A10 meet was only 1 day because there was only one indoor track facility in the entire conference (URI) and that facility was in high demand. Indoor A10s has since moved to a 2 day format and it's still being held at URI.

My thought was fewer rounds would keep conference athletes fresher for regionals/nationals.

I feel like they may do this to help save athletes for nationals and the regional meets.

TheLastAmateurs wrote:

So that the meet fits into a weekend and we can be back at class.

THis is a joke right?

I just got back from the Ivy League championships. There meet featured prelims and finals in everything but the steeple, 5k and 10k. It was a two day meet and it featured way less missed times than your meet as it was Saturday / Sunday verus the Friday/Saturday schedule of your meet.

If the Patriot League was concerned about missed class, they'd hold in Saturday / Sunday.

citius5000 wrote:

I feel like they may do this to help save athletes for nationals and the regional meets.

I can't believe this is the reason. Very few of these athletes are even going to regionals.

I was thinking it might be because a few of the schools are so horrible at track they don't have many bodies and thus it's harder to cover all the events if you have to run prelims?

Some PL schools do not even come close to having enough athletes to cover all events even without prelims. But you've totally lost me as to what you're calling prelims. The qualifying races in the 100, high hurdles, etc. are definitely prelims. But you seem to be calling the heats in the intermediates, 400, 800, and 1500, prelims when they are finals. Am I misunderstanding you?

I've been out of the Patriot League for several years but I'm pretty sure there is a limit on how many athletes you can actually enter in the meet. You can enter as many athletes as you want in a single event but I think you can only actually enter like 40 athletes. If you have prelims and finals in the 400,800, and 1500 and have to run a 4x400 and 4x800 it becomes more difficult. There's also usually not that many sections of any event so it's easier to justify having a multi-section final.

Far better that way. If only the IAAF did it too, it would get rid of "tactical" championships forever. The A heat can't sit and kick if the B heat went all out.

Get rid of limits on national teams and straight up time-qualify the world top 24 in every event to compete in three sections.

TheLastAmateurs wrote:

Philosophically the PL was more like a D3 conference in that some of the schools didn't have a policy (or at least much of one) around students missing class for athletic events. This has probably change somewhat since I was there. Because of that, the conference was constrained to a weekend. Then to you point, schools that want to win have their best athletes compete in 2,3, or more events because the talent isn't that deep. Specifically, somebody who can qualify for regionals in an event can probably score (or even win) in several events at the Patriot League meet.

My kid runs in a D3 conference and the conference championship meet was two days, and they had prelims in all shorter than 3k- making the finals in a middle distance event was a great challenge and highlight of the season for many. It adds excitement to both days.

Former Patriot Leaguer here. The conference limits schools to 32 entrants indoors and 35 outdoors. The deeper teams in the conference are often forced to leave potential scorers home.

The final-on-time method has a few pros and cons. Individual athletes are able to run finals "fresh," which can be conducive to faster times (particularly in the 400). They're also able to compete in more meaningful races (i.e. finals). The 4x8s and 4x4s are often more competitive because specialists in those events don't need to run prelims. This year at the outdoor meet the Men's Track Athlete of the Meet, William Melchionni of Bucknell, was able to run the 4x1, 400, 200, and 4x4 on Saturday (winning the last three) with only a 200 prelim in his legs from the day before. Add a 400 prelim to that, and we might not get to see him anchor a great 4x4 finish. Nickolas Causey of Army was able to place 3rd in the 1500 and 2nd in the 800- add two prelims to that and we might not see such a great result.

At the same time, you have slow heats of 400s, 800s, and 1500s that are far from spectator friendly. Athletes are forced to chase times during the season to get into fast heats. It's certainly something that should be reviewed.

The coaches body is reviewing it now that there are 10 women's teams and 9 men's teams. The majority of coaches seem to want trials in the 400, 400h, 800 and possibly 1500. A plan will be presented at the league meeting this fall and if passed by coaches and administrators, we are probably looking at putting trials in the meet in 2020. It will help prevent time chasing to get into the fast heats and make for a much more exciting day 2 and much less dead time on day 1.