Is Daniel Komen's 3000m world record insurmountable?

No entries in the top-20 since 2011, no close assaults since El G

1 7:20.67 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Rieti 01.09.1996

2 7:23.09 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 03.09.1999

3 7:25.02 Ali Saïdi-Sief ALG 15.03.78 1 Monaco 18.08.2000

4 7:25.09 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Bruxelles 28.08.1998

5 7:25.11 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Monaco 02.08.1994

6 7:25.16 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Monaco 10.08.1996

7 7:25.54 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Monaco 08.08.1998

8 7:25.79 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Stockholm 07.08.2007

9 7:25.87 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Bruxelles 23.08.1996

10 7:26.02 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

11 7:26.03 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Helsinki 10.06.1999

12 7:26.62 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10.10.70 2 Monaco 18.08.2000

13 7:26.69 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Sheffield 15.07.2007

14 7:27.0+ Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Sydney 28.02.1998

15 7:27.18 Moses Kiptanui KEN 01.10.70 1 Monaco 25.07.1995

16 7:27.26 Yenew Alamirew ETH 27.05.90 1 Ad-Dawhah 06.05.2011

17 7:27.3+ Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Hechtel 19.07.1997

18 7:27.42 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Oslo 09.07.1998

19 7:27.50 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Bruxelles 25.08.1995

20 7:27.55 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi KEN 03.03.86 2 Ad-Dawhah 06.05.2011

i always love reading this.

he was such a freak talent

who can? Are they not setting up 3000m time trials any more? whats the difference?

what are u babbling about m8? wrote:

No entries in the top-20 since 2011, no close assaults since El G

1 7:20.67 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Rieti 01.09.1996

2 7:23.09 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 03.09.1999

3 7:25.02 Ali Saïdi-Sief ALG 15.03.78 1 Monaco 18.08.2000

4 7:25.09 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Bruxelles 28.08.1998

5 7:25.11 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Monaco 02.08.1994

6 7:25.16 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Monaco 10.08.1996

7 7:25.54 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Monaco 08.08.1998

8 7:25.79 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Stockholm 07.08.2007

9 7:25.87 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Bruxelles 23.08.1996

10 7:26.02 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

11 7:26.03 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Helsinki 10.06.1999

12 7:26.62 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10.10.70 2 Monaco 18.08.2000

13 7:26.69 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Sheffield 15.07.2007

14 7:27.0+ Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Sydney 28.02.1998

15 7:27.18 Moses Kiptanui KEN 01.10.70 1 Monaco 25.07.1995

Excluding Bekele top 15 are all between 94 and 00.... Makes you wonder......

flaxseed oil and the clear? asthma/thyroid and a little HGH?

Yes. Not possible with the ABP.

interestinggg wrote:

what are u babbling about m8? wrote:

No entries in the top-20 since 2011, no close assaults since El G

1 7:20.67 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Rieti 01.09.1996

2 7:23.09 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 03.09.1999

3 7:25.02 Ali Saïdi-Sief ALG 15.03.78 1 Monaco 18.08.2000

4 7:25.09 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Bruxelles 28.08.1998

5 7:25.11 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Monaco 02.08.1994

6 7:25.16 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Monaco 10.08.1996

7 7:25.54 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Monaco 08.08.1998

8 7:25.79 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Stockholm 07.08.2007

9 7:25.87 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Bruxelles 23.08.1996

10 7:26.02 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

11 7:26.03 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Helsinki 10.06.1999

12 7:26.62 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10.10.70 2 Monaco 18.08.2000

13 7:26.69 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Sheffield 15.07.2007

14 7:27.0+ Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Sydney 28.02.1998

15 7:27.18 Moses Kiptanui KEN 01.10.70 1 Monaco 25.07.1995

Excluding Bekele top 15 are all between 94 and 00.... Makes you wonder......

...and if you watch Bekele's races, they weren't really attempts at the record either...just ended up quick. Not saying he would have broken the record but I think he could have easily taken a couple seconds off his best

Tron wrote:

interestinggg wrote:

Excluding Bekele top 15 are all between 94 and 00.... Makes you wonder......

...and if you watch Bekele's races, they weren't really attempts at the record either...just ended up quick. Not saying he would have broken the record but I think he could have easily taken a couple seconds off his best

nothing is "easy" at 4:00 pace

interestinggg wrote:

what are u babbling about m8? wrote:

No entries in the top-20 since 2011, no close assaults since El G

1 7:20.67 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Rieti 01.09.1996

2 7:23.09 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 03.09.1999

3 7:25.02 Ali Saïdi-Sief ALG 15.03.78 1 Monaco 18.08.2000

4 7:25.09 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Bruxelles 28.08.1998

5 7:25.11 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Monaco 02.08.1994

6 7:25.16 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Monaco 10.08.1996

7 7:25.54 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Monaco 08.08.1998

8 7:25.79 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Stockholm 07.08.2007

9 7:25.87 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Bruxelles 23.08.1996

10 7:26.02 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

11 7:26.03 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Helsinki 10.06.1999

12 7:26.62 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10.10.70 2 Monaco 18.08.2000

13 7:26.69 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Sheffield 15.07.2007

14 7:27.0+ Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Sydney 28.02.1998

15 7:27.18 Moses Kiptanui KEN 01.10.70 1 Monaco 25.07.1995

Excluding Bekele top 15 are all between 94 and 00.... Makes you wonder......

Interesting also that those Bekele races were later in his track career

Probably.

I really, really, really want to believe that Komen was an amazing, naive talent that just ran as hard as he could for a couple years to make as much money as possible before he lost focus and burned himself out and no doping was involved. I really, really, really want to believe that. I want this to be the main reason that he was so good:

Afterward Komen admitted he had not even known what the existing world record time was going into the race. Indeed, according to those who then surrounded him, Komen had little general understanding of records and paces and distances.

“He didn’t really comprehend what he was doing,” Ratcliffe says. “He just ran as hard as he could. There was no barrier there.”

Alongside his hunger to escape poverty, Komen’s innocence as a runner might have been one of the most important psychological ingredients to his success.

“He was an uninhibited runner,” says Ricky Simms, who also helped manage Komen under Kim McDonald. “He had no fear of times or other runners.”

Gaskell recalls an incident that perfectly captures Komen’s mindset toward competition. At a running club appearance in London, Komen was asked how he dealt with pre-race nervousness.

“Daniel did not understand the question,” Gaskell recalls. “It wasn’t that he didn’t understand English. He didn’t understand what it was to be nervous before a race.”

dude, even if Komen was doped to the gills, he was still easily one of the greatest ever distance runners in history. EPO alone let just anyone run 12:39, 7:58, and 7:20. come on there is massive talent involved to put those times together. Bob Kennedy said himself no one he saw in Kenya could push as hard as Komen did in training.

it's not like you can just give a guy like Luke Puskedra or Tyler Pennel a bunch of EPO and expect him to run 2:03 in the marathon. or even Justyn Knight....

he was without barriers as the article said

El G couldn't get within 3 seconds of 7:20 and he was probably an EPO experiment.

Luke Puskerdra could easily go under 2:05 in the marathon if you gave him the right sauce.

lol just reading that list could cause someone to fail a doping test.

Blitzkrieg BLITZKRIEG wrote:

he can be talented AND doped viva wrote:

dude, even if Komen was doped to the gills, he was still easily one of the greatest ever distance runners in history. EPO alone let just anyone run 12:39, 7:58, and 7:20. come on there is massive talent involved to put those times together. Bob Kennedy said himself no one he saw in Kenya could push as hard as Komen did in training.

it's not like you can just give a guy like Luke Puskedra or Tyler Pennel a bunch of EPO and expect him to run 2:03 in the marathon. or even Justyn Knight....

he was without barriers as the article said

El G couldn't get within 3 seconds of 7:20 and he was probably an EPO experiment.

Luke Puskerdra could easily go under 2:05 in the marathon if you gave him the right sauce.

haha, yeah right.

look at his PB's

Weird, I was actually going to make a thread like this a few days ago.

I don't think we will see a combination of:

1) an athlete in shape to run 7:20 or less

2) good conditions

3) pacing (Komen got drafting until 2k in 4:53. The number of athletes that can even do that in any given year is small, let alone rabbit at that pace)

So no, I don't think it will go down for a long time.

It's also about equal to 12:37, which I don't think will go down for a long time either for the same reasons.

thrt54thth wrote:

Weird, I was actually going to make a thread like this a few days ago.

I don't think we will see a combination of:

1) an athlete in shape to run 7:20 or less

2) good conditions

3) pacing (Komen got drafting until 2k in 4:53. The number of athletes that can even do that in any given year is small, let alone rabbit at that pace)

So no, I don't think it will go down for a long time.

It's also about equal to 12:37, which I don't think will go down for a long time either for the same reasons.

There are no runners on the world scene currently for 3000m that are capable of running a 3:57 mile and continuing on for another .86 of a mile at that pace. Same holds true for the 5000m, nobody around right now that can string three plus 4:03 miles together. These records are set in stone.

thrt54thth wrote:

Weird, I was actually going to make a thread like this a few days ago.

I don't think we will see a combination of:

1) an athlete in shape to run 7:20 or less

2) good conditions

3) pacing (Komen got drafting until 2k in 4:53. The number of athletes that can even do that in any given year is small, let alone rabbit at that pace)

So no, I don't think it will go down for a long time.

It's also about equal to 12:37, which I don't think will go down for a long time either for the same reasons.

Komen had it easy with a pacer for two-thirds of the race.

Bekele ran without a pacer for the last 3k of that 12:37. Insane.

Tron wrote:

interestinggg wrote:

Excluding Bekele top 15 are all between 94 and 00.... Makes you wonder......

...and if you watch Bekele's races, they weren't really attempts at the record either...just ended up quick. Not saying he would have broken the record but I think he could have easily taken a couple seconds off his best

I recall that Bekele was the one who actually said that Komen's 3000m (indoor) record was the strongest ever.

I think Komen's record is unique because I don't think anyone else in history could have matched it. I think Geb in his prime had a chance on 12:37. Watch his 5000m WR where he overcame shitty pacing and fatigue to run 2:27.3 for the last 1000! Komen only ran at the highest level for 2 years as well and who knows how much he had left when ran his 5000 WR. Komen ran EVERY lap under 60 seconds for his 3000m record! Opens in sub 57. 57.8 at 2400. 2:25.8 2:27.4 2:27.49 for the 1000s. To be fair to Komen, he trained in the same group as Bob Kennedy and was mentored by Moses Kiptanui so he's not shady aside from being in the EPO era. It would be so amazing if we could ever learn whether these athletes were real or not.