Why is Vanderbilt so noncompetitive?

oilman wrote:

I see no reason why they cant be better than what they are. Really sad to see out of a school with such potential.

Steve Keith is a good coach and does an excellent job with his team.

Exactly! Look at Wake in the ACC.

westerntrailrunner wrote:

I’ve always wondered why the SEC doesn’t seem to have any great distance programs. It might be that attention is placed on football and so other the sports tend to get pushed aside. Weather conditions down south are also definitely not attractive to cross country training, either.

Below are the results of last year's SEC outdoor 5000 meters run in a very humid Columbia, South Carolina. Keep in mind the 5k is the last distance event of the meet and several of these athletes are doubling (and one tripling, I believe) back from 10ks, steeples or 1500s. A non-rabbited race for place and not a Stanford/Mt. SAC time trial. There were athletes who ran 14:01, 1407 and 14:08 and 16:20 and 16:21 who did not score. There were some very good runners who weren't in the mix when the real racing started. How do these results compare to the mighty PAC-12, Big Ten, or ACC? Just asking.

Men's 5000 Meters Top

1. Erb, MJ SR-4 Ole Miss 13:47.64 10

2. George, Alex SO-2 Arkansas 13:53.83 8

3. Bruce, Jack JR-3 Arkansas 13:53.93 6

4. Long, Zach SO-2 Tennessee 13:54.49 5

5. Thomson, Jacob JR-3 Kentucky 13:54.98 4

6. Chelanga, Alfred JR-3 Alabama 13:57.79 3

7. Dalquist, Austen SO-2 Arkansas 13:58.09 2

8. Kamau, Bryan JR-3 Georgia 14:01.65 1

Women's 5000 Meters Top

1. Schweizer, Karissa JR-3 Missouri 15:51.76 10

2. Tubbs, Taylor SR-4 Florida 16:08.13 8

3. England, Mary Alex SR-4 Ole Miss 16:10.93 6

4. Drop, Jessica FR-1 Georgia 16:15.29 5

5. Reina, Valerie SR-4 Arkansas 16:18.06 4

6. Kigen, Brenda SO-2 Auburn 16:18.39 3

7. Gray, Abby FR-1 Arkansas 16:19.19 2

8. Brown, Shelby JR-3 Ole Miss 16:20.97 1

Maybe there aren't great "distance programs" in the SEC (although I would argue that currently Arkansas and Ole Miss are pretty good), but there are some damn good track programs in the SEC that have great athletes in all of the events. SEC track and field is superior to SEC football based on national rankings and, more importantly, national finishes. The only college track meet better than the SEC meet is the NCAA meet (maybe).

Now, back to Vanderbilt...

Guy With Opinions wrote:

The more pertinent question is why are they even in the SEC?

Money!

Baracuda Bob wrote:

oilman wrote:

I see no reason why they cant be better than what they are. Really sad to see out of a school with such potential.

http://www.vucommodores.com/sports/w-xc/recaps/112111aaa.html

Steve Keith is a good coach and does an excellent job with his team.

Agreed Keith is one of the better distance coaches you will find and has a long history of developing successful athletes - they have had a rough patch in the last few years but it is not because he suddenly forgot how to coach. Vandy is expensive and restrictive with recruiting and add in a bunch of money being thrown around by other schools just to get better female representation and I think that has impacted them in getting numbers. Throw in the fact, like many high standard academic schools, quality HS athletes will use athletics to get into a great institution with limited to no intention of committing to what it takes to be successful at the D1 level (example 1A Stanford) and it helps with the appearance of limited development among some athletes.

Every smart tack girl should strive to attend Villanova. There are only a few schools of this academic level that offer scholarships so the coach has his pick of athletes. Something is not being done properly. The ivies don’t offer scholarships and some of them are getting athletes than Vanderbilt.

They don’t offer scholarships for boys so even more troubling that they don’t recruit. My son scored 35 act and ran 4:15 as a jr. The coach didn’t respond to his recruit form.

In 3-5 years, a new coach, with tons of hype and energy, will get this program and follow the Syracuse model to a perennial trophy cross country program.

future baller wrote:

In 3-5 years, a new coach, with tons of hype and energy, will get this program and follow the Syracuse model to a perennial trophy cross country program.

Plenty of Chris Fox's disciples in the coaching realm to do that and already showing success

Not too good wrote:

Every smart tack girl should strive to attend Villanova. There are only a few schools of this academic level that offer scholarships so the coach has his pick of athletes. Something is not being done properly. The ivies don’t offer scholarships and some of them are getting athletes than Vanderbilt.

They don’t offer scholarships for boys so even more troubling that they don’t recruit. My son scored 35 act and ran 4:15 as a jr. The coach didn’t respond to his recruit form.

Oh tell me about it...they gotta stop recruiting Cali girls first of all...everyone knows those kind of kids are more interested in getting boob jobs & boy friends than running fast! When my track daughter wants an Ivy level education, I'd totally send her to the Harvard of Philadelphia. Who would want a real Ivy - especially one that provides really generous need-based aid to middle-class families. If I were the coach at Vanderbilt, I would pour A LOT of my time into a men's program that isn't funded & doesn't have any admission slots/assistance and doesn't sponsor track as a sport. And I would definitely hire Chris Fox's bro brigade to assist me with a majority women's program. And I wouldn't bother fighting cancer while I'm at it. That's for sure.

We didn’t know at the time that they didn’t provide scholarships so we thought it would be a good fit. My son got no discount at the ivies because we lived the last 25 years like paupers saving every penny. He decided on his state school with a minimal athletic scholarship and large academic scholarship. We will consider Vanderbilt again in 2 years for our daughter hoping for a large scholarship because she also will get nothing at the ivies. I don’t disagree with you that girls should consider the ivies if they are to receive a nice financial package but many good distance runners come from wealthy families.

Another factor, maybe small, is that running in Nashville SUCKS.

Running around campus is just terrible and it doesn't really get better in the whole metro area.

Bigger factors: it's Vandy. It's unlike any other school in the SEC. Kids might go there for many reasons, at the very bottom of the list is sports.

Shelby Greenway and trails, Percy Warner Park, Belle Meade Boulevard, Belmont Boulevard, urban running through the neighborhoods...plenty of good running in Nashville.

Not too good wrote:

We didn’t know at the time that they didn’t provide scholarships so we thought it would be a good fit. My son got no discount at the ivies because we lived the last 25 years like paupers saving every penny. He decided on his state school with a minimal athletic scholarship and large academic scholarship. We will consider Vanderbilt again in 2 years for our daughter hoping for a large scholarship because she also will get nothing at the ivies. I don’t disagree with you that girls should consider the ivies if they are to receive a nice financial package but many good distance runners come from wealthy families.

Then since I'm the coach there I'd be searching my recruit questionnaire database for a 4:15 kid with a 35 ACT. Then I'd search for a girl by the same last name at the same high school with decent sophomore times & get ready to give her a big 'ole scholarship for showing up! Especially since her father is deciding for her!

Vanderbilt just announced their signing class for next year http://www.vucommodores.com/sports/w-track/spec-rel/042418aaa.html

Baracuda Bob wrote:

oilman wrote:

I see no reason why they cant be better than what they are. Really sad to see out of a school with such potential.

http://www.vucommodores.com/sports/w-xc/recaps/112111aaa.html

Steve Keith is a good coach and does an excellent job with his team.

Yeah, he wants this time and that time to get in...but few of his athletes run those times during the year. Hilarious.

I know someone in the know, yeah...I really do. Keith is a former Vandy runner and has the right to his opinion, but when you get "too picky" the well will eventually run dry. I disagree with his recruiting method, and that's my opinion (and it ain't just me;)

Hi jealous troll. Your handle fits you well.

The father didn't say he was deciding anything, he simply said that they got no response. Do try to insert sarcasm when it applies or you'll keep looking like a fool.

Guy With Opinions wrote:

The more pertinent question is why are they even in the SEC?

It's so that other SEC football teams have a guaranteed win at their homecoming game.

And money.

Dore Dore Dore wrote:

Do you know how difficult it is to get into Vandy? How difficult it is to stay eligible?

They have all the challenges of the Ivy League without any of the benefits....

The only challenging thing about Ivy Leagues is admission. Once you're in, you're guaranteed to graduate unless you fvck goats in the quad at noon.

George Bush Jr. is an Ivy League alumnus.

Yah George bush didn't even need to get good high school grades to get in either lol