Ryan Hall 2:04:58 = underwhelming, wind-aided performance. Kamworor 13:01 = GOAT??

1. This board is full of self hating Americans.

2. A 13:01 final 5k in a half marathon is a whole new world of crazy, no matter what the conditions are.

double standard wrote:

What's with the trend of freaking out over Kamworor's 13:01 split, when in reality it was heavily assisted by the wind? Ryan Hall's marathon can't get mentioned without someone noting that it was wind-aided, but the site makes it sound like Kamworor ran a legitimate, unaided split in the half in the recent article about him. Not bashing the guy at all, but this is the only performance I've seen around here not listed with an asterisk for some noted conditions.

Did you read the article? This is what I wrote:

that segment is a net downhill, and Kamworor benefited from a tailwind as high as 30 mph for much of it.

Obviously it was an aided split, but he still crushed some of the world's best over the final 6.1k.

Didn’t you already start a thread like this when it happened?

Anyway, Kamworor’s split is objectively much better than what Hall did (or anything Hall ever did). Not surprising given the difference in credentials there. As an aside, I dislike how people, including Hall himself, call him a “2:04 guy” based a non-eligible, wind-aided effort that barely snuck under 2:05. Just rubs me wrong.

Qweu wrote:

Didn’t you already start a thread like this when it happened?

Anyway, Kamworor’s split is objectively much better than what Hall did (or anything Hall ever did). Not surprising given the difference in credentials there. As an aside, I dislike how people, including Hall himself, call him a “2:04 guy” based a non-eligible, wind-aided effort that barely snuck under 2:05. Just rubs me wrong.

Hall had a 15 mph wind behind him. Kamworor had a 25 mph wind. There are a lot of people who could split 13 flat with a 25 mph tailwind. Gimme a break.

Qweu wrote:

As an aside, I dislike how people, including Hall himself, call him a “2:04 guy” based a non-eligible, wind-aided effort that barely snuck under 2:05. Just rubs me wrong.

He still ran 2:04.

Well there's that wrote:

Qweu wrote:

Didn’t you already start a thread like this when it happened?

Anyway, Kamworor’s split is objectively much better than what Hall did (or anything Hall ever did). Not surprising given the difference in credentials there. As an aside, I dislike how people, including Hall himself, call him a “2:04 guy” based a non-eligible, wind-aided effort that barely snuck under 2:05. Just rubs me wrong.

Hall had a 15 mph wind behind him. Kamworor had a 25 mph wind. There are a lot of people who could split 13 flat with a 25 mph tailwind. Gimme a break.

Yeah, ok. “A lot” of people, if you say so. But Hall isn’t and never was one of those people, so there’s that.

I actually came back to add the most important point against Hall’s run: he got LICKED in that race! 4th place, nearly two minutes back of the winner. How are you going to say that’s a comparably impressive performance? “Wow, look how fast the 4th place finisher ran! Never mind the three men who destroyed him.” Meanwhile, Kamworor was dominant.

Qweu wrote:

Well there's that wrote:

Hall had a 15 mph wind behind him. Kamworor had a 25 mph wind. There are a lot of people who could split 13 flat with a 25 mph tailwind. Gimme a break.

Yeah, ok. “A lot” of people, if you say so. But Hall isn’t and never was one of those people, so there’s that.

I actually came back to add the most important point against Hall’s run: he got LICKED in that race! 4th place, nearly two minutes back of the winner. How are you going to say that’s a comparably impressive performance? “Wow, look how fast the 4th place finisher ran! Never mind the three men who destroyed him.” Meanwhile, Kamworor was dominant.

The thing is, as you may or may not know, is that the half and the full marathons are different beasts. Hall basically acted as a pacer for the pack behind him for the first 16 miles. It if wasn't for him, that race would have been an average 2:07, 2:08.

He MADE that thing happen! Even the winners thanked him for such an amazing effort.

In this case, I was thinking the same thing. Letsrun had no problem in headlining Kamworor's supposed 13:01 5k as if it were entitled to shock and awe at the same time as they point out that it is believable and worth more like 13:30 because of the wind, while in Hall's case, they just dismiss his wind-aided time entirely as if it did not happen or was worthless. If you are stunned by a 13:30 finish, and I highly doubt last 5k splits in a road race, then go ahead and be amazed by Kamworor.

But don't then tell me that Hall's 2:04:58 is worthless.

Ryan Hall hasn't gotten close to 13:01 with pacemakers on the track for just that distance.And If you think the road is faster than the track, think again.

http://elitetrack.com/beneath-surface-look-impact-surface-running/

Also, Ryan Hall had a good day. Kamwaror is stringing together many amazing victories over many different surfaces...over multiple years. Why is this even a discussion?

double standard wrote:

What's with the trend of freaking out over Kamworor's 13:01 split, when in reality it was heavily assisted by the wind? Ryan Hall's marathon can't get mentioned without someone noting that it was wind-aided, but the site makes it sound like Kamworor ran a legitimate, unaided split in the half in the recent article about him. Not bashing the guy at all, but this is the only performance I've seen around here not listed with an asterisk for some noted conditions.

I’d say kamworor’s 5k split is like kipchoges sub2. He just had better than optimal conditions and we are still astonished anyways because it seemed out of the realm of possibility.

Optimist wrote:

double standard wrote:

What's with the trend of freaking out over Kamworor's 13:01 split, when in reality it was heavily assisted by the wind? Ryan Hall's marathon can't get mentioned without someone noting that it was wind-aided, but the site makes it sound like Kamworor ran a legitimate, unaided split in the half in the recent article about him. Not bashing the guy at all, but this is the only performance I've seen around here not listed with an asterisk for some noted conditions.

I’d say kamworor’s 5k split is like kipchoges sub2. He just had better than optimal conditions and we are still astonished anyways because it seemed out of the realm of possibility.

Sub2 attempt I should say for kipchoge

This is clearly racist

SO WHAT if they had huge tailwinds? Kamworor's 13:01 and Hall's 2:04:58 are STILL bona fide times over bona fide distances. We know that wind is advantageous, but those two guys still ran those two times. Who among us wouldn't like to crush a PR with wind at our backs? Peers know the meaning of wind-aided, but nevertheless, they were great accomplishments.

Yeah, Hall's time received more negative press than Kamworors's but at least in part that's because Kamworor absolutely crushed his opponents in the second half of that race, despite the fact that those opponents had the same wind at their backs. So it was a very, very impressive 5K.

Optimist wrote:

double standard wrote:

What's with the trend of freaking out over Kamworor's 13:01 split, when in reality it was heavily assisted by the wind? Ryan Hall's marathon can't get mentioned without someone noting that it was wind-aided, but the site makes it sound like Kamworor ran a legitimate, unaided split in the half in the recent article about him. Not bashing the guy at all, but this is the only performance I've seen around here not listed with an asterisk for some noted conditions.

I’d say kamworor’s 5k split is like kipchoges sub2. He just had better than optimal conditions and we are still astonished anyways because it seemed out of the realm of possibility.

I guess I can go along with that. It just seems bizarre how the reactions to wind affecting the performance are so different.

How times have people have run under 2:05 for the marathon? And how many times has someone run a 13:01 between 15-20k in a half?

Yes, both wind aided, but the difference is that over 60 other times people have done what Ryan did, without wind so it doesn’t seem all that remarkable anymore, but how many times has someone dropped a 13:01 to close out a half?

Well there's that wrote:

Qweu wrote:

Didn’t you already start a thread like this when it happened?

Anyway, Kamworor’s split is objectively much better than what Hall did (or anything Hall ever did). Not surprising given the difference in credentials there. As an aside, I dislike how people, including Hall himself, call him a “2:04 guy” based a non-eligible, wind-aided effort that barely snuck under 2:05. Just rubs me wrong.

There are a lot of people who could split 13 flat with a 25 mph tailwind.

Well, it seems only one of them were in the HM world championship.

FrenchDawg wrote:

1. This board is full of self hating Americans.

2. A 13:01 final 5k in a half marathon is a whole new world of crazy, no matter what the conditions are.

Yep, lots of self hating Americans. And gullible as well if they believe Kamworor is clean. Self-hating gullible idiots.

The reality is more bleak than what people are saying for times because its deeper-seated than anyone wants to admit.

Most posters on letsrun like edgy people, people on drugs, wayward drinkers, trolls, potty mouths and jerks . As a result, many people here secretly idolize dopers and may secretly dope.

Ryan Hall represented a fresh face, a nice guy, a re!igious man and a genuine article. But you like edge.

That's why.

Hall basically = kamworor but jealous whites can't handle accolades to someone else.

Americans are generally crap.

How unusual for a white American to contrast a white American achievement with that of a random black man. How very unusual...