Should you always “fast finish” tempo runs?

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  • Trevelyan Harper
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    2 years ago 03/20/2018 3:03pm CDT
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    I was thinking today as I ramped up the pace in the last 200m of my tempo run, that it has always felt like the perfect weekly workout to end quickly. It’s a long sustained effort followed by a shift into a higher gear. Is this good over the long term and would it help in races? (Yes I know I don’t really need a kick because I’m minutes off the elites in a 5k but whatever, I still want to beat people racing at a similar pace)

    I’m not talked about a flat out 100 at the end of every tempo or “tying up” going to the well etc but is it good to mentally call on those fibres to fire when fatigued from a long sustained effort.

    I just imagined racing having done 20 or so tempo runs in the last few months where I was so in the habit of running fast when tired that it was practised and I could do it or is this just hurting my training because I’m going to need more recovery?

    Also, it seems the tempo run is better than the easy runs, moderate runs or even long runs to practise this in training.

    What does the community on here think?
  • Hell no
    2 years ago 03/20/2018 3:09pm CDT
    re: Trevelyan Harper
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    Strides on easy runs, tempos are tempos. You might be tempting too slow if you want to do this
  • Cut, gut
    2 years ago 03/20/2018 4:05pm CDT
    re: Trevelyan Harper
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    Yes, finish fast and strong.
  • Not a College Runner
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    2 years ago 03/20/2018 4:35pm CDT
    re: Cut, gut
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    Pick it up a little bit. Think smooth and relaxed turnover.
  • Dur
    2 years ago 03/20/2018 4:43pm CDT
    re: Hell no
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    Hell no wrote:

    Strides on easy runs, tempos are tempos. You might be tempting too slow if you want to do this


    If you pick it up the last half mile or more, maybe.
  • Scorpion_runner
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    2 years ago 03/20/2018 4:45pm CDT
    re: Trevelyan Harper
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    No.

    What is wrong with americans? Tempo is tempo. It's a specific training to push one's lactate threshold, so that they can run fast for longer distances.

    warm ups before tempos. cool downs after tempos.

    on easy days do semi-hard strides to stimulate fast twitch muscles, and speed sessions and v02max sessions work those fibers as well.
  • Hardloper
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    2 years ago 03/20/2018 4:49pm CDT
    re: Trevelyan Harper
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    Kicking the last 200 of a tempo seems a little silly. If you want to work on speed then do a speed workout, running one hard 200 won't do much except make you slightly more tired than you would have been. For a tempo, why not drop the pace for the last mile+ and just finish relaxed and smooth.
  • running commenter
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    2 years ago 03/20/2018 4:53pm CDT
    re: Hardloper
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    Kicking the last 200 of a tempo or not kicking the last 200 of a tempo will not change your training very much at all. There's a lot of arguing on this thread as if this will be some big difference maker.
  • Trevelyan Harper
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    2 years ago 03/20/2018 7:20pm CDT
    re: running commenter
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    This. I honestly feel like it’ll either have NO effect on my training or a mild positive effect. Mainly from the psychological effect of ingraining it as a habit.
    Like I said. 1-200m and not all out. So not the last half mile. And not kicking. It’s just staying relaxed and in control but increasing pace.
  • a tempo is a tempo
    2 years ago 03/20/2018 7:24pm CDT
    re: Trevelyan Harper
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    No. The whole point of a tempo is to get some aerobic stimulus WITHOUT going to the well. If I did a track workout on Monday and I have another on Thursday, I just want my Tuesday tempo to be a tempo, not another hard workout.
  • dawdnjawlk
    2 years ago 03/20/2018 7:26pm CDT
    re: running commenter
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    running commenter wrote:

    Kicking the last 200 of a tempo or not kicking the last 200 of a tempo will not change your training very much at all. There's a lot of arguing on this thread as if this will be some big difference maker.


    I agree with this. But also, you people are too rigid in your training. Why not fast finish your tempo runs? Could be a good little stimulus. OP, how about you try it for a little while and see how it goes.
  • Hardloper
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    2 years ago 03/20/2018 7:26pm CDT
    re: Trevelyan Harper
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    Trevelyan Harper wrote:

    This. I honestly feel like it’ll either have NO effect on my training or a mild positive effect. Mainly from the psychological effect of ingraining it as a habit.


    Ingraining what as a habit?
  • Sweet Nell Fenwick
    2 years ago 03/20/2018 7:41pm CDT
    re: Trevelyan Harper
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    It's good to pick it up as long as you're not forcing it. You should preserve that "full of run" feeling the whole time and at the finish, you should feel like you're actually absorbing energy by going faster.
  • nope..
    2 years ago 03/20/2018 8:03pm CDT
    re: Trevelyan Harper
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    No. That is what high school runners tend to do. It is like dropping the hammer on the last interval. Don't be that guy.
  • Trevelyan Harper
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    2 years ago 03/20/2018 8:10pm CDT
    re: Hardloper
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    Mentally. The habit of increasing pace at the end of a hard continuous run. In my training this only happens during a race. The races I’ve done, I’ve called upon that feeling of you know what body, just like in training, we’re gonna speed up, even though this pace is hard. Just in a race (the best practise one will ever have of this) I give it all and go to the “sludge at the bottom on the well” as John Kellogg says. Obviously I don’t do this in training. But in a race, if it’s run properly you should feel like God I wanna slow down and then you have to speed up. Having practised this in a smaller way surely helps. Like I said, if only mentally. As in a belief that you can because you’ve practised it. Habits that are somewhat arbitrary but make us feel better or believe in ourselves more are not to be underrated, right.
    That’s why runners have their pre race routines, special breakfast, lucky shoes etc, right?

    @dawdnjawlk I do it in some of my tempos. Not all. Just to vary training stimulus. Normally I find the answer to “should I do A or B” to be vary both.
    Seems to be that for fasted runs, doubles or singles, hill rep length, types of workouts. Etc
  • B.Winkle
    2 years ago 03/20/2018 8:37pm CDT
    re: Trevelyan Harper
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    You don't need to do this on every tempo run, but it can be good to do it when you're in the mood. In particular, it is good to practice shifting gears.
  • NERunner053
    2 years ago 03/20/2018 8:51pm CDT
    re: B.Winkle
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    I think it's fine to do as long as you're feeling good. It has to be common to have the last mile of a tempo or last 800 to be the fastest portion. Usually my last rep or last few are the fastest when I'm doing intervals. It makes sense to speed up at the end.

    I think it is a good conversation to have if everything could be a little quicker vs the last mile or last rep being the outlier. Like if you do 8 x 800m at 2:40 but the last rep is 2:32 should you have tried to maintain 2:37-38 for the whole thing versus dropping it down at the end?
  • K3rmit
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    2 years ago 03/20/2018 9:39pm CDT
    re: Trevelyan Harper
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    I don't see a problem. But I prefer a 5 mile tempo followed by 4 to 6 200s at around mile pace. Whatever recovery you need, a minute or two, whatever. I feel like that helps with finishing speed.
  • Dur
    2 years ago 03/20/2018 10:39pm CDT
    re: K3rmit
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    K3rmit wrote:

    I don't see a problem. But I prefer a 5 mile tempo followed by 4 to 6 200s at around mile pace.


    This makes 100% more sense than what the OP does.
  • Trevelyan Harper
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    2 years ago 03/21/2018 4:12am CDT
    re: Dur
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    Cool. Thanks guys. Some interesting thoughts here.
    I’ll play around with 200’s after tempos or if I just do the tempo and feel good. A 200 at the end of that.