How often can a 4 hour marathoner turn into a 3 hour marathoner?

I ran my first two marathons in 3:47 and 3:42 at ages 25 and 26. At age 33 I ran three marathons in 2:45:16, 2:47:xx, and 2:42:50.

What did I do?

1. Cleaned up my diet and lost 30 pounds.

2. Ramped up my mileage from 40 to 80 mpw.

3. Started training once per week with a group that had some guys faster than I was.

Starting slow doesn't mean staying slow.

Just once...

Are you good at praying?

irunnaked wrote:

25-30 mpw

Found your problem

Nice improvement!

I definitely can clean up my diet and lose some weight. Currently 6'0'' and 190.

Not obese but definitely room for improvement. Any idea what weight range would be ideal for me?

80 mpw is serious. How was it distributed throughout the week?

Thanks!

My marathons:

2001 (age 24) - 5:05

2002 (age 25) - 4:59

2003 (age 26) - 4:36

2004 (age 27) - 4:22

2006 (age 28) - 1:56 (half)

2007 (age 29) - 2:02 (half)

2016 (age 39) - 3:40

2017 (age 40) - 3:17

I haven't BQ'd yet, but hopefully trending that way. I run Kalamazoo on May 6.

There's no magic bullet from my standpoint. It's just a combination of higher mileage and speedwork, largely based upon principles I've learned here. I'm in the 70-80 mpw range these days, when getting ready for a marathon.

I definitely weigh less than I did in my mid-20s, as well. Probably 20-30 pounds, depending on what year we're talking about.

irunnaked wrote:

Nice improvement!

I definitely can clean up my diet and lose some weight. Currently 6'0'' and 190.

Not obese but definitely room for improvement. Any idea what weight range would be ideal for me?

80 mpw is serious. How was it distributed throughout the week?

Thanks!

There are definitely examples of "bigger" people running fast marathons, but I believe most are outliers. So, at your height, I think 150 to 160ish would set you up to run considerably faster.

irunnaked wrote:

Nice improvement!

I definitely can clean up my diet and lose some weight. Currently 6'0'' and 190.

Not obese but definitely room for improvement. Any idea what weight range would be ideal for me?

80 mpw is serious. How was it distributed throughout the week?

Thanks!

amkelly is female, iirc, so you won't have to do as much work as her to get that fast. You definitely don't need 80 mpw. Also, start introducing quality sessions into your training. Go hard, recover for a couple days, repeat, and sub 3 will eventually happen.

"Ideal" weight isn't really relevant. Ideal weight for you is probably 140-150lbs (19-20 bmi) but that's, uh, not really realistic. That said, at the very least, get below 170 (23 bmi)

amkelley wrote:

I ran my first two marathons in 3:47 and 3:42 at ages 25 and 26. At age 33 I ran three marathons in 2:45:16, 2:47:xx, and 2:42:50.

What did I do?

1. Cleaned up my diet and lost 30 pounds.

2. Ramped up my mileage from 40 to 80 mpw.

3. Started training once per week with a group that had some guys faster than I was.

Starting slow doesn't mean staying slow.

I ran my first two marathons in 3:50 and 3:40 at ages 28 and 29 (and 3:16 at age 31). At age 34 I ran my fourth marathon in 2:56 and I am currently training for Boston with a long term goal of sub 2:50.

What did I do?

1. Cleaned up my diet and lost 30 pounds (160lbs when I ran 3:16, close to 130lbs at 2:56)

2. Ramped up my mileage from 30-40 to 60-65 mpw. Recently ran 70 mpw a couple of times, hoping to make this a new norm.

3. Started believing that: "in order to get something you've never had you must be willing to do something you've never done." For me that was weight, mileage, and running slower most days to just get there.

4. Bonus: took carbs during marathon and fueled/hydrated right.

I'll never be the fastest out there, but running makes me very happy. Best of luck to you![/quote]

You are still woefully undertrained. That's a good thing. It shows some ability. But I think you'd probably need to double your mileage to take a reasonable shot at 3:00.

Having run 10+ marathons all between 3 and 4 hours and about to take a shot at sub 3 this year, you really need higher mileage above all else. Once I started increasing mileage, it all starting clicking -- diet, weight, 5k/10k speed. Just get the miles in and slow down as much as needed to not get injured. If you're at 25-30 now, shoot for 40-50 next cycle, then 50-60, etc. I'll have done about 75 mpw with peak above 85 this past cycle and I seem to be on track for a shot at a sub 3 time. You could probably do it on less mileage but more training cycles (or more talent, previous running experience, etc)...and by less, I still mean 50mpw or more.

150 is likely a little too light, try 160ish. 150 would be skin-n-bones low muscle mass. You want some muscle on you.

just higher milage. at least 60, anything less really isn't much of a marathon training plan (what like 3 runs a week, 5 5 and 20? )

even 60 is kinda low for the thon, but hey

finally. Lift heavy, 1-2 times a week, squats, deadlifts, bench, row 5 reps 3-5? setsish

the weights will

1. make you faster: longer stridelength

2. make you durable: less injury

3. recover faster: increases natural hgh production

4. makeyou not a cuckhold by increasing test prodution

epicTCK wrote:

150 is likely a little too light, try 160ish. 150 would be skin-n-bones low muscle mass. You want some muscle on you.

just higher milage. at least 60, anything less really isn't much of a marathon training plan (what like 3 runs a week, 5 5 and 20? )

even 60 is kinda low for the thon, but hey

finally. Lift heavy, 1-2 times a week, squats, deadlifts, bench, row 5 reps 3-5? setsish

Weights on easy or hard days?

I appreciate all the responses!

I definitely wasn't trying to insinuate that I felt my current training was adequate. I was just curious if others had made the jump I was hoping to....and it looks like several of you did!

Looks like some hard work and building up my base mileage a considerable amount is what is needed.

irunnaked wrote:

35 years old.

25-30 mpw running 4 days a week

Honest reply:

Every single healthy male under 45 can go from a 4 hour marathon to a 3 hour marathon. None, or almost none, can do it on 25-30 mpw.

It might take you 50 mpw, it might take you 100 mpw over an extended period of time, you'll have to find out for yourself. But the question is not if it's possible, the question is if you want to do it.

If you want to run sub 3 hours:

Slowly (!) raise your mileage until you're running at least 50-60 mpw and 6-7 days a week. Meanwhile, race only shorter distances. When you've reached 50-60 mpw, do a marathon build-up and race one. Then, recover for a month. Increase your mileage by 5-10 mpw and when it has stabilized, again, do a marathon build-up and race one. Stop when you've run sub 3 or continue. The question is not if you will reach sub 3, but when.

I went from 3:40 to 2:30. And for what it's worth, I was doing a lot more than 30 mpw when I did the 3:40. Didn't keep a log at the time, but it was probably closer to 65.

From what I gathered researching training guides and top coaches, they always discuss that a weekly long run is about 20-25% of your weekly mileage.

A lot of the marathon “plans” for people to “finish” a marathon that you may see in Runners World are closer to 35-50 mpw (and the 50 mile weeks are the exception in the plan). This means that close to 40-50% of your weekly mileage is the long run. This simply beats you up and impairs the rest of your training. And it often results in a lot of different types of training stimuli being neglected. I mean, you can finish a marathon and improve to a certain degree with that type of training, but it is not optimal training.

If you are doing weekly 20 mile long runs, I honestly believe your mileage should be within the 70-80 mpw range so that you achieve more of a training effect to prepare for the marathon as opposed to wearing yourself down.

Some people claim to run “fast” marathons off of less mileage, but that is relative. Usually if you examine their 5k/10k or half marathon times and look what their projected marathon time should be based on race calculations , they actually underperform in the marathon.

I started running when I was 34 or 35, followed a basic marathon plan to just finish my first one, which I did in 4:42. I did that off of 25-30 miles a week. I've gotten my mileage up to 60-80 miles a week and ran my last marathon in 3:23, and shooting for just under 3:00 in the fall.

I'm also 6'0, and when I first started running I was 215. I'm down to 175 now. Getting your mileage up and getting your diet right will make all the difference.