I've been doing a lot of research on running form lately and it's recently clicked for me that the "butt kicker" drill is practically worthless. You're basically forcing your hamstring to be active and pull your heel up when in reality during the gait cycle it should be passive and move due to the stretch reflex from extending the hip.
Are there any other drills that are common place in dynamic warm ups that basically train us the wrong way?
If you're using your standard drills to correct running form, then every single drill.
"My interpretation, from discussions with Gerard Mach and Biancani, as well as my extensive use of these drills over the years is that their primary benefit is not as technique drills. They are drills that specifically strengthen the muscles in postures and actions that are similar to those that occur during the sprint action. It is through strengthening in the specific positions that technique is improved"
Same guy wrote:
https://www.brianmac.co.uk/mobile//articles/scni40a4.htm"My interpretation, from discussions with Gerard Mach and Biancani, as well as my extensive use of these drills over the years is that their primary benefit is not as technique drills. They are drills that specifically strengthen the muscles in postures and actions that are similar to those that occur during the sprint action. It is through strengthening in the specific positions that technique is improved"
What this guy quoted. It’s all about recruiting those pesky fibres. The body remembers.
Delete this thread wrote:
If you're using your standard drills to correct running form, then every single drill.
Where did I say that?
I agree with your next post about the drills being more about strengthening (and mobility/warm up in my opinion) than technique. It seems based on that article that you linked that you think SOME drills are productive.
All I'm asking is if the community thinks that there are any other standard drills that we do (such as butt kickers) that are counterproductive to running by reinforcing the wrong movements.
Black and Decker...
I actually like the hamstring drill. I'm an old masters runner and it seems to wake things up.
Butt kickers are as much about letting the quad relax enough to let the heel flick higher.
Luv2Run wrote:
Black and Decker...
Far worse drills than Black and Decker
all drills are useless
B skips can cause a braking action upon landing. I've watched many HS kids extend the leg and slap their leg down on the ground too far in front of their center of gravity.
To have true strengthening effect you have to do drills at least 4 x a week. Few people do that so, for many people, they just encourage injury. Drills are fun, though. Just overrated.
Stop Light fire drill where everyone gets out of the car at a stop light, runs around it, and gets back in before the light changes.
Same guy wrote:
https://www.brianmac.co.uk/mobile//articles/scni40a4.htm"My interpretation, from discussions with Gerard Mach and Biancani, as well as my extensive use of these drills over the years is that their primary benefit is not as technique drills. They are drills that specifically strengthen the muscles in postures and actions that are similar to those that occur during the sprint action. It is through strengthening in the specific positions that technique is improved"
Thanks for posting this. It summarizes what was wrong with my running for 5+ years while in school.
Coaches had us do 30+ minutes of drills every day. High knees, butkicks, and all kinds of skips. Then we'd do our running workouts. This absolutely ruined my running for several reasons.
First of all, 30 minutes of skipping and high knees is incredibly taxing if done at high effort. I usually did them at high effort because I didn't want to be a slacker and honestly thought it would help me improve. Basically half an hour of plyometrics. So I was absolutely shot for the actual running later.
I also thought that the motions done during high knees and butkicks were precisely the motions I was to emulate while running fast. I probably took things too literally, but this was the impression my coach gave me.
So when running workouts after warmup, I'd remember how it felt to have extreme high knees during the warmup, and force myself to do this in my stride. I'd do the same with butkicks, and force myself to heel-to-glute with every stride. What resulted was an extremely exaggerated running form, that looked alright at first glance but was incredibly inefficient.
Instead of running on reflex, drills taught me to force every movement. Imagine consciously moving your arms and legs through every phase of your running stride. It's insane, but that's what I did for years because it's how I interpreted the cues my coaches gave me.
I did notice that my running would feel much more effortless when I skipped doing drills in the summers. But upon returning to school every year we'd get back to the drills, and my running would almost immediately deteriorate. I'd suddenly feel much more strained running, and my easy and 5K paces would drop by a minute and 30 sec respectively. It was incredibly frustrating as I knew I was in shape to run much faster than I did, but with drills and running workouts way too quickly, I'd decay into a pitiful runner by the end of every season.
My advice to coaches would be to avoid drills unless you and your athletes really know what they are doing.
disgraceful_admin wrote:
Same guy wrote:
https://www.brianmac.co.uk/mobile//articles/scni40a4.htm"My interpretation, from discussions with Gerard Mach and Biancani, as well as my extensive use of these drills over the years is that their primary benefit is not as technique drills. They are drills that specifically strengthen the muscles in postures and actions that are similar to those that occur during the sprint action. It is through strengthening in the specific positions that technique is improved"
Thanks for posting this. It summarizes what was wrong with my running for 5+ years while in school.
Coaches had us do 30+ minutes of drills every day. High knees, butkicks, and all kinds of skips. Then we'd do our running workouts. This absolutely ruined my running for several reasons.
First of all, 30 minutes of skipping and high knees is incredibly taxing if done at high effort. I usually did them at high effort because I didn't want to be a slacker and honestly thought it would help me improve. Basically half an hour of plyometrics. So I was absolutely shot for the actual running later.
I also thought that the motions done during high knees and butkicks were precisely the motions I was to emulate while running fast. I probably took things too literally, but this was the impression my coach gave me.
So when running workouts after warmup, I'd remember how it felt to have extreme high knees during the warmup, and force myself to do this in my stride. I'd do the same with butkicks, and force myself to heel-to-glute with every stride. What resulted was an extremely exaggerated running form, that looked alright at first glance but was incredibly inefficient.
Instead of running on reflex, drills taught me to force every movement. Imagine consciously moving your arms and legs through every phase of your running stride. It's insane, but that's what I did for years because it's how I interpreted the cues my coaches gave me.
I did notice that my running would feel much more effortless when I skipped doing drills in the summers. But upon returning to school every year we'd get back to the drills, and my running would almost immediately deteriorate. I'd suddenly feel much more strained running, and my easy and 5K paces would drop by a minute and 30 sec respectively. It was incredibly frustrating as I knew I was in shape to run much faster than I did, but with drills and running workouts way too quickly, I'd decay into a pitiful runner by the end of every season.
My advice to coaches would be to avoid drills unless you and your athletes really know what they are doing.
True, the high knees drill has done countless damage to me. Be cautious with butt kicks too. Side to side seems to be putting pressure on my lower limbs as well.
I keep away from the Dentist Drill whenever possible.
Drill Baby wrote:
Stop Light fire drill where everyone gets out of the car at a stop light, runs around it, and gets back in before the light changes.
Ahh, the old Chinese Fire Drill
I've thought this for a while that drills were stupid and don't really impact form in a positive way.
I like them for warming up though before a track session. I might do some form of quick feet, skipping, backward running and a few variations of running upstairs.
They all seem fine to me.
Then the only ones that actually transfer to running form I think are pure sprinting, uphill sprinting and stair running fast. Perhaps because they're all based on running.... hahaha. These are the ones I'd do with any proper dedication and time as I believe they have proper benefits.
Then the plyometric ones for strength are single leg hops (flat or uphill) and bounding.
Did I miss anything useful?
Most useless? Probably backwards running. The body can spin 180 degrees for a reason.
the Dentist Drill seems to be like a hammer one!