Houlihan @ the worlds

Enlighten me please wrote:

It was great to see Houlihan do so well today. She was fifth, behind the Big Four, and pretty close to Obiri. But this turned into exactly the sort of slow, tactical race that should favor her. I haven't seen the splits, and wasn't tracking her during the race. Any thoughts on why she wasn't able to use her closing speed to kick her way to a medal?

The top 3 closed the final 400 in 60 or 61. Shelby likes a tactical race, but the top 3 like them also and they were just too fast.

the_enlightener wrote:

The top 3 closed the final 400 in 60 or 61. Shelby likes a tactical race, but the top 3 like them also and they were just too fast.

So all that talk before the race about Houlihan using her speed to medal in a slow race was just wishful thinking by the homeboys?

PS Does anyone have a link for the splits?

1. 84 seconds, 1:23:14 , 1.26:11 .

Enlighten me please wrote:

It was great to see Houlihan do so well today. She was fifth, behind the Big Four, and pretty close to Obiri. But this turned into exactly the sort of slow, tactical race that should favor her. I haven't seen the splits, and wasn't tracking her during the race. Any thoughts on why she wasn't able to use her closing speed to kick her way to a medal?

The top 4 are way better than she is

Hardloper wrote:

The top 4 are way better than she is

Again: So all that talk before the race about Houlihan using her speed to medal in a slow race was just wishful thinking by the homeboys?

After today's raced, it's hard for me to see Houlihan medaling in the 1500, either. The big question before today was whether Muir was rusty or out-of-shape, but she looked just fine today.

The way to beat a hard kicker like Shelby is to kick from 600-800 out, which is what they did and suited Dibaba, Muir, Hassan and Obiri perfectly. Shelby got 5th against four of the strongest 3K women in history, who were running their preferred racing style.

I expect Shelby to do better in the 1500 as it is more likely to come down to positioning and kicking the final 200.

YMMV wrote:

The way to beat a hard kicker like Shelby is to kick from 600-800 out, which is what they did and suited Dibaba, Muir, Hassan and Obiri perfectly. Shelby got 5th against four of the strongest 3K women in history, who were running their preferred racing style.

But...but...

YMMV wrote:

If the race is under 8:30, Houlihan is silver or bronze; if it is over 8:30, gold or silver.

I know, I know, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."

No individual splits available at this point.

The race result has Klosterhalfen leading at 2000m in 6:07.62 but it was actually Dibaba that led through 2k in ~6:07.3, something's wrong there.

Dibaba's last k is therefore ~ 2:37.7. Muir went through 2k in ~6:08.1 meaning last k was about the same as Dibaba. Houlihan through 2k half a second behind Muir, Hassan two steps behind that.

Enlighten me, please wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

The top 4 are way better than she is

Again: So all that talk before the race about Houlihan using her speed to medal in a slow race was just wishful thinking by the homeboys?

Whose talk are you talking about? Random yahoos on the boards? Be more specific.

YMMV wrote:

I expect Shelby to do better in the 1500 as it is more likely to come down to positioning and kicking the final 200.

This is Shelby Houlihan that has never broken 55, 2, 4 or 15, right? I suppose she might do better as there is no Obiri in the 1500, but Seyaum and Chepkoech come in to the field with better credentials than SH, and Muir, Hassan and Dibaba are going nowhere.

tommy cooper wrote:

YMMV wrote:

I expect Shelby to do better in the 1500 as it is more likely to come down to positioning and kicking the final 200.

This is Shelby Houlihan that has never broken 55, 2, 4 or 15, right? I suppose she might do better as there is no Obiri in the 1500, but Seyaum and Chepkoech come in to the field with better credentials than SH, and Muir, Hassan and Dibaba are going nowhere.

It appears that Shelby's last 2K was in around 5:33, which is worth 4:03 for 1500.

Hassan won the 1500 in 2016 in 4:04. Shelby will be in it.

rose colored boy wrote:

Houlihan through 2k half a second behind Muir, Hassan two steps behind that.

Since Houlihan finished a little over four and a half seconds behind Muir, she lost four seconds to Muir over the last 1k.

Does anyone know if Houlihan closed on the top four at the end of the race?

It's hard to see how this bodes well for Houlihan in the 1500.

Hardloper wrote:

Whose talk are you talking about? Random yahoos on the boards? Be more specific.

If "random yahoos on the boards" includes whoever wrote the LRC preview page, (who could see Houlihan "screaming by" Dibaba to "steal a medal") and the people who voted in the poll on that page, then I'm going to have to plead guilty.

Enlighten Me, Please wrote:

Does anyone know if Houlihan closed on the top four at the end of the race?

It's hard to see how this bodes well for Houlihan in the 1500.

She lost a lot of distance from 2000-2600 and then had an excellent last couple of laps, making up 20m odd to pass Klosterhalfen and Worku (in the final strides and close up on Obiri. Probably ran a similar last 400m to the leading three, but not closing on them.

It bodes well for her in that she should have gained confidence from her best performance on the world stage. Finishing within a second of Hellen Obiri is a terrific effort. Means she may be more psychologically equipped to go with the leaders in the 1500m.

While she is still a way behind the best in the world, she's clearly much closer than she was last summer.

Enlighten Me, Please wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Whose talk are you talking about? Random yahoos on the boards? Be more specific.

If "random yahoos on the boards" includes whoever wrote the LRC preview page, (who could see Houlihan "screaming by" Dibaba to "steal a medal") and the people who voted in the poll on that page, then I'm going to have to plead guilty.

Looks like an informative preview which predicted a top three that (correctly) did not include Houlihan

rose colored boy wrote:

It bodes well for her in that she should have gained confidence from her best performance on the world stage. Finishing within a second of Hellen Obiri is a terrific effort. Means she may be more psychologically equipped to go with the leaders in the 1500m.

While she is still a way behind the best in the world, she's clearly much closer than she was last summer.

Nicely put. Thank you. I agree completely. Today's results are very encouraging. They show Houlihan's last few races aren't flukes. As you say, she has improved, and is much closer to the best than she was just last summer.

I was careless, and did not make clear I only meant that today's results do not bode well for her medaling in this weekend's 1500.

After looking at the heat sheets, I think she'll be lucky to make it out of her heat. She has by far the slowest PB and SB in her heat.

As I said in the meet predictions, the top 4 are on a different level than Houlihan. Maybe she should give Jenny Simpson and Emma Coburn a call to learn how to compete with the top tier. In the meantime, keep putting in thise miles.

She’s not as good as the people who beat her. Fans always make unfounded claims about their favorites’ prowess.

Is that what you wanted to hear? Could you not reach that conclusion on your own? I don’t know why you had to make six posts asking for clarification when the answer is so obvious.

How civil of you, kudos. I suspect she'll get out of her heat. PRs and SBs can be a little misleading at this point - Houlihan looks streets better than Bobocea for instance. Her current form seems more indicative of her being a 3:59/14:50 athlete, which makes her very competitive if not one of the creme de la creme.

Let's see.