What is Japan doing differently in marathon training compared to the U.S.?

Rupp=1.5 (.5 for olympic medal) Japan=0

No go wrote:

Rupp=1.5 (.5 for olympic medal) Japan=0

Japan has more sub 2:09 marathoners today in just the Tokyo marathon, than America has ever in there history (so far).

Winning wrote:

No go wrote:

Rupp=1.5 (.5 for olympic medal) Japan=0

Japan has more sub 2:09 marathoners today in just the Tokyo marathon, than America has ever in there history (so far).

That is nice. Maybe we should also compare marathon medals and major wins.

Not to say the Japanase don't perform well at the marathon (they are great), and not to say American's marathon depth is non-existent (don't we all love guessing who will be the next elite, well-funded American to tackle the 2:12 barrier).

Do we have any Japanese runners who post here? I'd like to see a comment from someone who's on the inside.

Short courses.

Sad state.

Japan can't medal in any major championship because they simply aren't that good.

So they cheat their courses.

Wake up.

Where are these studs at the Olympics or Worlds??!

Wake up.

Cheaters.

Since Suguru Osako is doing well in NOP, I don't think the difference is in their training. Yuta Shitara and Hiroto Inoue's training isn't very similar either.

My assumption is Japanese runners have better opportunity to break records than their American counterparts. Especially in male 10000m and longer races. Good pacing that isn't too fast, easy course, and/or the abundance of record meetings help a lot. Kipsang's early drop today slowed down the top pacers, was also a lucky factor for those top Japanese.

This means American runners who have about the same PRs of those in Japanese ones, are actually better than them. So i'm not surprised to see American runners doing way better than ours in championship races.

Another reason is Japanese athletics focuses more in marathon than track races. This increases its depth in marathon at the expenses of that in track distance running. This tendency is currently accelerating towards Tokyo Olympic Games. Among all those track distance events, only two runners manage to break qualification mark in London WC. One of those two was even injured and missed the event.

Also Japanese male runners tend to switch early to road events thanks to Hakone ekiden, make them train for marathon from young age.

Today's results are still impressive though. A dissapointing race from Kipsang, but other guys and gals made up for it.

I thought Sitara still hadn't learnt race strategies for marathons. I thought Inoue hadn't been good enough for 2:07.

Now I can happily declare that I was wrong.

Cultural and economisation of talent. Japan tends to focus on either 100m or the Marathon whereas America is strong from 200m to 10,000m.

Didn’t someone say it has to do with Americans going by mile splits and everyone else in the world by kilometers?

Toss out the watch and pacing s***- it’s holding us back. Back in the day they raced to compete and went faster/more depth/more pride. Japanese have National pride competing well on their home turf.

To follow up- Japanese are chasing 3 min kilometers and end up running 2:06-10, whereas Americans are chasing sub 5 min miles (2:11) and running 2:12-16. If you go anywhere else in the world the races are in kilometers. Americans need to leave America and race elsewhere to learn to race by feel and be pulled along at a faster pace by the non-Americans going by kilometer splits.

Japan: big emphasis on aerobic development when young. High mileage and low weight.

America: Emphasis on middle distance when young. Medium Mileage and stronger build.

What I would like to know is why, with so many fast marathoners, they almost never compete outside the country.

Kilometers and pride wrote:

To follow up- Japanese are chasing 3 min kilometers and end up running 2:06-10, whereas Americans are chasing sub 5 min miles (2:11) and running 2:12-16. If you go anywhere else in the world the races are in kilometers. Americans need to leave America and race elsewhere to learn to race by feel and be pulled along at a faster pace by the non-Americans going by kilometer splits.

I ran Tokyo today (albeit closer to 4:00km pace) and was amazed by the HUGE number of runners that were running around my pace or faster. You can see those ahead of you many times since the course has a few out and back portions. The depth here is unreal! I have no idea how I placed (yet), but felt it was much farther back than I would have been in a US major.

I ran by feel so I stopped checking my watch about 5 miles in, but having kilometer markers instead of miles made the race feel like it went by faster. You make great points about Americans shooting for mile splits rather than km and running for pace instead of feel. Kilos are the measuring stick that most marathoners use to gauge their projected finish, but the best focus more on racing. The Japanese go out like crazy and some of them paid the price dearly. But you don't run a BIG PR unless you race like they do. Go after it (within reason) and let the chips fall where they may.

Granted, the lack of racing abroad is mostly due to the paydays American pros can get in the US that aren't available elsewhere, but this is a World Marathon Major and there were no American elites aside from Cragg! There has to be some middle ground for Americans to race marathons around the globe.

Just looked at the top 6 Japanese runners in Tokyo marathon. They are all tiny, between 165-172 cm, with their weight around 48-55kg...built like jockeys. Those are ideal builds for marathon runners. Not too many American males built like that.

So Japan has a HUGE genetic advantage to start with...a huge pool of young men built like grade 6 or 7 school kids in the US....

Japanese diet...healthy..fish, veggies, rice, green tea, and SMALL PORTIONS...most Japanese, eat only until they are 80% full...everywhere else, until sated.

I could go on...

Ghost in France

I'm Japanese Pro.

We run 10,000 meters a day, do 100 pushups, 100 situps and 100 squats everyday as well.

That is our secret.

Les wrote:

What I would like to know is why, with so many fast marathoners, they almost never compete outside the country.

They're not really incentivized to compete outside the country. The best runners work for companies, who pay them to compete in the major Japanese races, including the corporate ekiden, where doing well matters more to their employers than doing well in New York or London.

There's more of an explanation (and background) here:

American expat living in Kanagawa here. Seems to me the most important difference is simply interest. Turn on the TV just about any weekend of the year here and you'll see hours and hours of coverage devoted to road racing of one kind or another. And of course the Hakone Ekiden is THE major media event of the New Year holiday every year. That sort of media attention is one the things I love about this place.

In a nutshell, distance running hasn't been drowned out by the big-money sports, as it has in the U.S., in particular. So competitive distance runners here have tremendous incentive to do well.

And of course Japanese runners can run for a corporate team after college. Many jitsugyodan (corporate) runners are well into their 30s, so they're given a chance to progress. Both Shitara and Inoue are on such teams, as are probably all those guys who broke 2:09 today.

Actually, what mystifies me is why they're not even better than they already are, given the stupendous times I've seen posted by jr. high and high school students in ekiden races here. The young talent here is just staggering. I suspect that a big limiting factor is the emphasis on marathon-type (i.e., aerobic) training at the expense of middle-distance (i.e., speed endurance) development (in fact, most Japanese think the word "marathon" means distance running of any kind; you have to say "full marathon" to let them know you mean the 26.2- mile distance).

I think Osako's success with the Nike Oregon Project (he holds the Japanese national records for 3,000 and 5,000) indicates how Japanese runners could benefit from a more progressive approach that develops middle-distance ability before the runner moves up in distance.

Taro wrote:

Actually, what mystifies me is why they're not even better than they already are, given the stupendous times I've seen posted by jr. high and high school students in ekiden races here. The young talent here is just staggering. I suspect that a big limiting factor is the emphasis on marathon-type (i.e., aerobic) training at the expense of middle-distance (i.e., speed endurance) development (in fact, most Japanese think the word "marathon" means distance running of any kind; you have to say "full marathon" to let them know you mean the 26.2- mile distance).

They are burnt out by the time they finish college. High school teams are running 100mpw and college Hakone teams do up to 150mpw.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Cultural and economisation of talent. Japan tends to focus on either 100m or the Marathon whereas America is strong from 200m to 10,000m.

The American’s had an Olympic silver medalist and went 1-2 in the world championships last year in the men’s 100m, and medalist at both championships/games in the women’s 100m

The Americans had an Olympic silver medalist in the men’s marathon and a world championship bronze in the women’s marathon last year.

What are you talking about?

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Cultural and economisation of talent. Japan tends to focus on either 100m or the Marathon whereas America is strong from 200m to 10,000m.

Do you realize that in the recent World Championships the U.S. went 1-2 in the 100 and won more marathon medals than Japan?