I have a kid who just transferred in. He runs 47.2 and 1:50 in the 400/800. How can i coach him right? I am nervous. I've never had a kid who is more of a 400/800
I have a kid who just transferred in. He runs 47.2 and 1:50 in the 400/800. How can i coach him right? I am nervous. I've never had a kid who is more of a 400/800
throw him with the milers once a week for a workout and 200-400 guys for the other workout
not that hard
just train him like a sprinter but with some easy miles thrown in
ask him what he did last year and build off of that. probably a blend of speed endurance work, steady running, sprinting, and lifting. no need for a long run. build aerobic capacity through threshold-paced intervals instead of through mileage. someone with that kind of speed and a predilection for the 800 is an awesome person to train, and you could have an elite future 800m runner on your hands. here's a sample "big training week" that I would use for someone like that:
M- Speed Work: Full sprint warmup. Something like 4x30m, 3x60m, 2x90m, 1x150m. Block starts too if he'll be racing 400/4x4.
T- Easy running or cross-training (preferably something like swimming where you can get a strong aerobic stimulus without putting a ton of time in).
W- Threshold Session: break it into blocks. Guys like this thrive off of slightly faster work for a shorter time. 4k of volume is a good number. Try 5x800m with 60-90 sec jog at 2:35 with the goal to progress throughout. Strides before and after the threshold can be a good way to keep in touch with his speed.
R- Same as Tuesday. One of these could be a day off as well, depending on what he's comfortable with.
F- Speed/Specific Endurance Session: These are where these guys thrive, but be careful not to overdo it. There are times when you want to make it hurt, but with 4 medium to high intensity days in a week, each workout needs to be measured. Early season you'll want to do more volume at a more sustainable pace (closer to 1500 pace) with less rest, while late season will call for more 800m pace and more rest. Don't start intense speed endurance work too early, as it loses its benefits after a while.
Here's a good early season example:
2 sets of 4x300m. First set at mile pace (probably 46-47 for this guy) with 90 sec rest. Second set at ~1000m pace (probably 43s) with 2 min rest.
And a good late season example:
2x500m at 800m race pace with 8-10 min recovery. try to run the first like it's the first 500m of a race (out hard, settle slightly). for this guy it's probably going to be 26 low - 53 mid - 1:06 high. get out more evenly on the second and finish strong (i.e. 26 high - 54 low - 1:06 high).
S- Recovery day like T/R
S- Progression run. Try 7 mi going 7:15-7-6:45-6:30-6:15-6-5:45. If he's a true sprint type this may need to be adjusted down.
800metrescoach wrote:
ask him what he did last year and build off of that. probably a blend of speed endurance work, steady running, sprinting, and lifting. no need for a long run. build aerobic capacity through threshold-paced intervals instead of through mileage. someone with that kind of speed and a predilection for the 800 is an awesome person to train, and you could have an elite future 800m runner on your hands. here's a sample "big training week" that I would use for someone like that:
M- Speed Work: Full sprint warmup. Something like 4x30m, 3x60m, 2x90m, 1x150m. Block starts too if he'll be racing 400/4x4.
T- Easy running or cross-training (preferably something like swimming where you can get a strong aerobic stimulus without putting a ton of time in).
W- Threshold Session: break it into blocks. Guys like this thrive off of slightly faster work for a shorter time. 4k of volume is a good number. Try 5x800m with 60-90 sec jog at 2:35 with the goal to progress throughout. Strides before and after the threshold can be a good way to keep in touch with his speed.
R- Same as Tuesday. One of these could be a day off as well, depending on what he's comfortable with.
F- Speed/Specific Endurance Session: These are where these guys thrive, but be careful not to overdo it. There are times when you want to make it hurt, but with 4 medium to high intensity days in a week, each workout needs to be measured. Early season you'll want to do more volume at a more sustainable pace (closer to 1500 pace) with less rest, while late season will call for more 800m pace and more rest. Don't start intense speed endurance work too early, as it loses its benefits after a while.
Here's a good early season example:
2 sets of 4x300m. First set at mile pace (probably 46-47 for this guy) with 90 sec rest. Second set at ~1000m pace (probably 43s) with 2 min rest.
And a good late season example:
2x500m at 800m race pace with 8-10 min recovery. try to run the first like it's the first 500m of a race (out hard, settle slightly). for this guy it's probably going to be 26 low - 53 mid - 1:06 high. get out more evenly on the second and finish strong (i.e. 26 high - 54 low - 1:06 high).
S- Recovery day like T/R
S- Progression run. Try 7 mi going 7:15-7-6:45-6:30-6:15-6-5:45. If he's a true sprint type this may need to be adjusted down.
oh, and lots of lifts, strength, and flexibility! don't neglect this
check out the famous sub 1:50 thread on letsrun for much much more info.
I assume this is high school?
TrackGuru wrote:
I have a kid who just transferred in. He runs 47.2 and 1:50 in the 400/800. How can i coach him right? I am nervous. I've never had a kid who is more of a 400/800
1) Train athlete as a 400m person. Race both 400m & 800m.
2) Train athlete as an 800m person. Race both 400m & 800m.
3) Train athlete as a 600m person. Race both 400m & 800m.
There is no one right answer.
Drop the 800 and just do the 400 which is the superior time. There are 47.2 guys that run 1:43 or better.
I'm not affiliated with Ryan Banta, but he is one of the top high school coaches in the country and just wrote the Sprinters Compendium.
Here is a presentation he did on training 400/800 runners:
http://speedendurance.com/2017/02/05/how-to-train-the-400800-meters-double/
To add on, I’d suggest looking into Ron Griggs, who has tons of valuable information about this exact event zone of 400/800. He has articles and videos available, some of which though is stuck behind a paywall, but regardless, very good information that I think you will find helpful with training the individual.
There is plenty of detail available about Juantorena's training.
Obviously you don't want to copy this exactly, even when adjusted in terms of time to suit the level your athlete is currently at, but it would be a good place to check out how his coaches got the balance right in the build up to his Olympic double. Interestingly, prior to 1976 he was regarded as very much a 400 runner by the Cubans. I believe it was one good 800 in 1975 that persuaded them that he had real possibilities over the longer distance.
If your guy can retain his 47 speed and at the same time build his endurance he should be able to float through 400 in, say, 52 and come home significantly under 1:50?
Check the Big Ten performance list for this weekend’s championship meet. There are 6 guys at 47.2 and 5 at 1:50 so his times appear to be equivalent.
Predictor wrote:
Check the Big Ten performance list for this weekend’s championship meet. There are 6 guys at 47.2 and 5 at 1:50 so his times appear to be equivalent.
They are equivalent... almost as if someone pulled them off a scoring table....
This is straight from the horses mouth. The training of Olympic gold medalists Steve Lewis and Danny Everett and american record holder Johnny Gray.
https://www.usatf.org/groups/Coaches/library/2008/Endurance/Training%20400m%20&%20800m%20Runners.pdf
Look into Ron Griggs training, it should help alot.
What sort of training got him to that point? Start from there and then adjust when you see areas that need to be modified. Don't try to be a hero and change everything if he has a system that is working for him.
Suspect a troll. This kid would be one of the top in the country, and transfers in what I presume is his senior year. Yeah. Right.