Which is stronger: El G 2000m or Komen 300m WRs??

I will channel my inner ventolin to answer this question.

2k 4:44.79 (El G 1999)

3k 7:20.67 (Komen 1996)

#2 of all time

2k 4:46.88 (Saidi-Sief 2001)

3k 7:23.09 (El G 1999)

Increment over #2 performer of all time

2k WR El G +0.734 percent better than Saidi-Sief #2 alltime performer

3k WR Komen +0.549 percent better than El G #2 alltime performer

WIN FOR EL GUERROUJ AND THE 2K WR.

Or let's do this another way, let's compare the WR with the mean PR of the top five performers in history. In the 2k this means going deeper into the alltime performances list because El Guerrouj has more than one performance that betters the #5 performer's PR (c.f. for the 2k, there are 6 performances by 5 athletes; for the 3k there are 5 performances by 5 athletes)

Mean of Top5 performers (MT5)

2k 4:47.40

3k 7:23.93

WR performance differential vs MT5

2k WR El G +0.916 percent better than the MT5

3k WR Komen +0.740 percent better than the MT5

Data source:

WIN FOR EL GUERROUJ AND THE 2K WR

Therefore, the 2k WR is stronger.

This is interesting.

According to the logic I posted above, then Bolt's 100WR is superior to both Komen's and El G's in terms of exceedance over the #2 alltime performer.

BOLT 9.58WR

#2 alltime (tied): Gay 9.69, Blake 9.69

Differential: Bolt +1.148 percent over the joint #2 performers in history.

Now let's do the same for FloJo's 100! LLLOOOOLLLL!!

FloJo 10.49WR (yes yes we all know, but that's what appears in the IAAF record book)

#2 alltime: 10.64 Jeter (2009)

Differential: FloJo +1.430 percent over the #2 performer in history!

Ding ding we have a winner!

This assumes that both distances are contested as often as each other. While they are both irregularly competed distances, I believe there are generally more 3ks than 2ks. It's possible that, were more people to race the 2k, El G's differentials would become smaller.

My reply to that would be that the number of 2000m and 3000m runs for the purposes of getting the fastest possible times are equally limited.

Other food for thought: El G hit 1600m in 3:49 and then ran a 55s last lap...

Or, he passed 1500m somewhere around 3:34. The actual pace of his run is 3:33.5 at 1500m.

Outrageous.

el g's 2k, approx 14.23 per 100m

komens 3k approx 14.68 per 100m

el g apprx 1500m time in route : 3:33

komen approx 1500m in route : 3:40

now lets take a look at what the WR for both was pre EPO era to see who had the biggest gain.

2000m

11 4:50.81 Saïd Aouita MAR 02.11.59 1 Paris 16.07.1987

if we go with with cram then its 4:51.39

3000m

7:29.45 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1989-08-20[1] Cologne, West Germany

now i think he was doping, but i dont think he was on EPO, if he was then we go with ronos 7:32

so you have a 6ish seconds improvement off the non EPO era in the 2k, and 9-12 seconds improvement in the 3k

interesting things, el g is the #2 all time 3k, and three seconds back, and komen is 7 seconds back pretty much in line with the pre EPO era WR.

my guess is when he tried to run it he had no pacers as he is 5th all time in the mile, 9th all time 2k, WR 3k, 3rd all time 5k. one would think he would be super close to the 2k or WR in that as well since his mile was so good.

anyone have komens 2k attempt?

on that note, since Renato seems to have the info on everyone....what can you tell us about komen? i mean come on, you said your boy said was the most talented runner of all time and he didnt get the 3k or 5k WR...you said kb had the best engine of all time (like wtf does that even mean), so what about komen? how was he able to crush so hard with no leg speed and do all of it in a span of 18 months? did he have huge aerobic base from childhood? did he just endure pain better than anyone? what is it?

MzunguWarrior wrote:I will channel my inner ventolin to answer this question

that esteemed gent/lady is long gone

may i offer an answer ?

i have constructed mathematical tables based on logarithmic equivalency between doubling distance for an even whole number clocking ( this i feel is very important & correct concept ), e.g. a

1'42.00 = 3'44.00 for 1600m ( NOT a mile )

( you have mathematical identical value performance for 1'42.00 of either choice of 3'42.00 or 3'44.00 or 3'46.00 & obviously 3'44.00 is correct from "real world" observation )

+ some tweaks for inter-distances of 1500/5k/etc

similarly, 1k of 2'12.00 will have choice of 2k equivalent of 4'44.00 or 4'46.00 or 4'48.00

the correct choice is :

2'12.00 = 4'46.00

similarly for 1500 & 3k, the choices for a 3'30.00 are 7'24.00 or 7'26.00 or 7'28.00

trust me, it definitely ain't 7'28 !!!

the answer is

3'30.00 = 7'26.00

with additional tweaking mentioned, the nearest lines of fit for the 3k & 2k WRs i get are :

for 3k WR

9.83

19.66

43.82

1'41.64

2'11.07

3'27.58

4'44.33

7'20.76

12'39.50

26'15.57

for 2k WR

9.85

19.70

43.90

141'.80

2'11.27

3'27.88

4'44.73

7'21.36

12'40.50

26'17.57

conclusions:

- the 3k is marginally stronger than 2k

- sprints are much stronger than middle/distance records, partly because they are run at maximal capabilities whereas middle/distance has variable pacing/drafting/extra run on bends/etc, but even so, i woud still rate sprinters as better runners than middle/distance which still has some way to catch up...

m!ndweak wrote:interesting things, el g is the #2 all time 3k, and three seconds back, and komen is 7 seconds back pretty much in line with the pre EPO era WR

Komen's 4'50+ or whatever pb is laughable

at his peak, probably in '97 or '98 indoors he was worth outdoors ~ 4'42+

eveni in rieti shape, if fully rested he shouda been looking at ~ 4'44+

my guess is when he tried to run it he had no pacers as he is 5th all time in the mile, 9th all time 2k, WR 3k, 3rd all time 5k. one would think he would be super close to the 2k or WR in that as well since his mile was so good

his 3'46pb was incredible

4 days prior he had run this :

after seeing this, i assumed his season was over as it woud take coupla weeks to recover from this to run anything of similar calibre, example being in '98 when geb broke 5k/10k wrs but had 12 days rest between them

even prior to that 5k, he had run 3'29.4 just 6 days before !!

anyhows, 12'39 then 4 days later he ran this mile :

it's one of the most incredible runs in synthetic track history !!!

on shattered legs with 12'39 from 4 days before & a 3'29 some 6 days before that, he got shafted in a criminally large field !!!, got baulked/tripped twice at start !!!, got so p!ssed-off he took straight right into lane 3 !!!, ran an incredible sprint to get near pole by 200m & got little drafting after & finished with a 54+ !!!

without even considering the shattering fatigue in his legs when lining up, the baulking/trips, the huge amount run extra on bends, the suicidal sprint within 100m, lack of drafting & even still mustering a 54+ kick, Komen was robbed of

~ 3'43+

that day

knock off what you want off that figure for the 12'39 from 4 days before & 3'29 from 6 days prior to that crumbling his legs...

calculo wrote:

that esteemed gent/lady is long gone

Too bad the new one isn't gone either.

calculo wrote:

may i offer an answer ?

Go ahead and flatter yourself but I'm not going read it. Mindweak's post most definitely but yours? No way Jose!

+1 Great post!

calculo wrote:

even prior to that 5k, he had run 3'29.4 just 6 days before !!

that 3'29.4 was no cake-walk either

it was monaco & he thrashed niyonbongo who challenged him so hard for 2nd in berlin mile

Komen thrashed niyonbongo in monaco by 3'29.46 v 3'30.47 !!!

& most of that 1s gap was done over last lap, meaning Komen had huge kick if given circumstances

( 54+ in a wild !!! wild !!! 3'46+ shows Komen had a huge kick !!! )

niyonbongo in '97 ran 3'29.18 !!!

pacer opened with 51.62 !!!!

( unfortunately 1st lap not shown but calculated from stats shown at 800 )

1'49.46 !!! for pacer, with hicham likely ~ 1'50-low & niyonbongo at 1'50-mid/high

niyonbongo still finished with a 55+

even without 1st lap shown, with brutal 51.62 !!! opener, it is obvious niyonbongo was forced to run too fast too early but still hung on for 3'29.18

it means, at worst he shouda been looking at ~ 3'28.5 at worst in proper paced run that day, perhaps 3'28-low

for Komen to have thrashed niyonbongo by over 1s just 6 days before in monaco means Komen likely put in an intrinsic 1500 effort 6 days

~ 3'27-flat/low

the crux of post is that Komen, intrinsically "efforted"

~ 3'27-flat/low in monaco

~ 12'36/12'37 just 6 days later on tired legs

~ 3'43+ just 4 days later on completely shattered legs !!!

Running a 3:46 mile indicates Komen’s legs weren’t “shattered.”

nonsense

they were

i'd like you to tell us what mile-ing great you were to put in intrinsic 3'27+, then 4 days later run intrinsic ~ 12'36+, then just 4 days later run an intrinsic 3'43+ & claim their legs weren't shattered lining up for that mile ???

Former miling great wrote:

Running a 3:46 mile indicates Komen’s legs weren’t “shattered.”

Don't go there, our resident nutcase will abuse you forever.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Former miling great wrote:

Running a 3:46 mile indicates Komen’s legs weren’t “shattered.”

Don't go there, our resident nutcase will abuse you forever.

+1

Classic Discussion wrote:

Discus

To obvious! 0/10

Alternatively wrote:

Other food for thought: El G hit 1600m in 3:49 and then ran a 55s last lap...

Or, he passed 1500m somewhere around 3:34. The actual pace of his run is 3:33.5 at 1500m.

Outrageous.

If this isn't the biggest red rag indication that EL G was doping on a grand scale then nothing will convince.

He runs a 3:50 mile, which is rarely broken these days and which would have put him in the all time top 6 in the event 15 years or so earlier (before he broke the 2000m WR), and then carries on for another lap at an even quicker pace!!

This is probably even better than the 3000m WR, and both times are clearly medically assisted in my opinion.

Think about it,..... a 3:50 mile, faster than Bayi or Ryun ever ran that distance, followed by another lap of 54 secs!

The distance is so rarely run these days because all the elites know it's impossible to approach, let alone break, without peds.

And this is the main problem (and there are many) with Calculo's calculations: he uses a model based on extreme performers and performances from a narrow period of time (the EPO era), which has been distorted by the heavy use of peds during that time, and which are unable to be applied to clean (or at least cleaner) athletes running before and after this period.

Just because EL G can run 7:23 and 3:26, it does not follow that he therefore must have been capable of 1:41, if his longer distance performances were effected by a drug that is for endurance events.

Komen has both the 3000 AND the 300 records? That's some decent range.

Off Ventolins calculations Komen could probably set the world 300m record.