how many miles should I be able to run @ Marathon Pace in one session during training to run that pace at race day?

26.2

20

In the midst of a big training week (80-85 mpw) I would have difficulty doing 10 miles at goal marathon pace. It could be done but took a ton of focus. Then I knew I was ready. Been doing this for 8 years and have hit my gmp on race day much more often than now.

I know some people say 16 miles at goal pace but that would wear me out for a week making me miss other workouts.

Cragder wrote:

In the midst of a big training week (80-85 mpw) I would have difficulty doing 10 miles at goal marathon pace..

I kind of want to say me too. I was running 10 more miles a week. Although I always missed my goal time by 3 or 4 minutes because I blew up around 22 or so. 5:20 pace to 6:20 pace and could not move my legs faster for anything.

Those are good questions, and I hope you get some thoughtful responses. I have never included marathon-pace training in my schedules -- not when MP was 6:08/mi 35 years ago, nor now when it's 7:08/mi.

I prefer, instead, to target lactate threshold pace specifically and include long progression runs finishing at LT pace or faster. I determine MP by racing a 15K or half marathon and looking at comparative tables/calculators.

european winter wrote:

Say I am aiming 6:00 mile/pace for Marathon, which is roughly 2h37:30.

If I am able to run 15 miles during training at that pace (very exhaustive workout) (1h29:45) at the end of a few weeks running intervals, long runs, easy runs, averaging like 65-70 miles for the last 10 weeks before a race. Would I be able to run that pace for an entire Marathon in two weeks, consider resting well before the race?

Able to run 8-12 miles at mp during training is normal, but to know if that is the correct goal mp I would need to look at other current race results, as well as results of the weekly intervals.

Predicted time is a synthesis of the whole body of running - intervals, tempos, mileage, races.

1h14:20 for Half Marathon, few months ago, probably improved a little since then. 4 x 3000m ~ 10:15, 400m jog 6 x 2000m ~ 6.45, 400m jog 10 x 1000m ~ 3:20, 90s rest Done 10 miles under 1h00 twice, not easy but doable. Ran 10k in 34:30 alone in the middle of the week, it was very hard but not exhaustive. 10 weeks of solid sessions averaging 65 mpw, with 75 as peak.

Sloinnorcal wrote:

european winter wrote:

Say I am aiming 6:00 mile/pace for Marathon, which is roughly 2h37:30.

If I am able to run 15 miles during training at that pace (very exhaustive workout) (1h29:45) at the end of a few weeks running intervals, long runs, easy runs, averaging like 65-70 miles for the last 10 weeks before a race. Would I be able to run that pace for an entire Marathon in two weeks, consider resting well before the race?

Able to run 8-12 miles at mp during training is normal, but to know if that is the correct goal mp I would need to look at other current race results, as well as results of the weekly intervals.

Predicted time is a synthesis of the whole body of running - intervals, tempos, mileage, races.

Allen1959 wrote:

Those are good questions, and I hope you get some thoughtful responses. I have never included marathon-pace training in my schedules -- not when MP was 6:08/mi 35 years ago, nor now when it's 7:08/mi.

I prefer, instead, to target lactate threshold pace specifically and include long progression runs finishing at LT pace or faster. I determine MP by racing a 15K or half marathon and looking at comparative tables/calculators.

This assumes good endurance. How many mpw?

too hot wrote:

This assumes good endurance. How many mpw?

Never my intention to be a low-mileage guy, but has always worked out that way (42 mpw in 1982, and about 42 mpw in 2017).

I am experienced enough to make the appropriate adjustment in estimating marathon pace from the tables. Interestingly, in both '82 and '17, actual MP was about 8 seconds slower than calculator predictions (6:08 vs 6:00, and 7:08 vs 7:00).

Regardless, race-day pace comes intuitively for me from the start, despite no dedicated MP training. No crazy negative-splitting, no major bonking.

I agree with Allen that focusing on LT is the most important part of marathon training, but I keep a few marathon pace runs in my training plan. Typically three runs of 13 miles easy at MP (plus a warm up and cool down).

I find that these are the toughest workouts of each cycle for me. Trying to go longer than that would be nearly impossible for me. And anything much less would probably lose out on the small, but appreciable LT benefit that I can get out of these runs.

Two other thoughts:

First, I try to find half marathon races to use for these. Closed roads, water stops, clocks, people around you, etc all make it an easier workout to handle for some reason, plus it really serves to simulate race day, which is a big part of the purpose of these runs anyway. I try to wear my exact race day kit (including flats) and carry everything I'd carry race day (all gels, salt tabs) even though I don't need them. I also take water even if I don't need it, just to practice taking it in at pace.

Second, for relatively slower runners, M pace is closer to their easy distance pace than their tempo pace, unlike with faster runners. So, somewhat counterintuitively, these are probably more manageable, and could probably be done for longer, by those on the slower side of the spectrum.

Depends...on goal marathon pace, weekly mileage average for the past 2.5 months, and what kind of "speed work" you've done (esp. around LT intensity).

But some hard long runs (20 miles +) are probably most specific and most important.

It is certainly "easier" for someone doing 60mpw with a goal marathon pace of 6:00-7:00 per mile to head out the door and

do a 12-18 mile run at that pace. It is "harder" (and less necessary in my opinion) for a runner doing 100mpw with a goal marathon pace of 5:20-5:10 per mile to run that far in training (although my time at Hansons certainly showed that it could be done!).

I think the key is to break up some of the sessions:

do 3 x 3 miles (or 3 x 5km) with a short half mile jog rest and do it slightly faster than goal marathon race pace (could only be 5 sec/mile faster to 15 sec/mile faster). You get 9 miles in (not quite continuous but close enough!) at a pace faster than goal marathon race pace. You could bump that up to 2 x 5 miles eventually for 10 miles of sub M.P. work. Take a short rest only though!

Then of course on a few long runs you want to hit close to marathon pace for some extended periods. You could start a long run off pretty steady-easy, but for the bulk of a 20-miler you want to be within 40-30sec/mile (varies depending on goal marathon pace a bit) of your goal pace. Then you negative split and throw down 3-5 miles near the end at marathon goal pace (or at least close to it).

The goal is to get the legs used to holding up to the stress of running relatively fast for a long time - and to get the glycogen stores tapped. Even if you are lean and eat a lot of carbs in your regular diet you will be more efficient at utilizing fat as fuel.

How you do in the race will mostly depend on your weekly mileage average, your quality sessions faster than M.P. (what paces you have hit and where your Lactate Threshold pace is), your Long runs, and how you fuel/hydrate during the race.

15-16 or so.

Smoove wrote:

Second, for relatively slower runners, M pace is closer to their easy distance pace than their tempo pace, unlike with faster runners. So, somewhat counterintuitively, these are probably more manageable, and could probably be done for longer, by those on the slower side of the spectrum.

Apologies to the 2:37-ish OP for getting off topic, but at slower speeds and super-low mileage, training paces can get really wacky.

In 2016, on 20 mpw average, my long runs (up to 18 miles) were significantly faster than marathon pace. Race-day pace was a legitimate 7:52/mi ("legitimate"= one-minute negative split, slight slow-down last 2 miles, completely wiped out at the end).

Yet, three weeks prior, I easily ran 15 miles at 7:30/mile. And almost all training was at 7:00 - 7:45 pace (taking days off instead of easy/recovery runs).

It's hard to say as only you know how hard it was.

Better guide is you half marathon in a race.

You are obviously in good shape what is the race target time?

Pete Pfitzinger's recommends 18 w/ 14 at marathon goal pace as the big workout of his training cycles in Advanced Marathoning

Here is a serious answer: I have found that running 26.2k (just over 16 miles) at race pace, 3 weeks out, is a great tune up for a good marathon. For this run, do everything like you would on race day, from day-before nutrition to warmup. Try to do loops so you can have a water/nutrition drop.

thanks everyone for the answers.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

It's hard to say as only you know how hard it was.

Better guide is you half marathon in a race.

You are obviously in good shape what is the race target time?

i'll take anything under 2h40..

european winter wrote:

thanks everyone for the answers.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

It's hard to say as only you know how hard it was.

Better guide is you half marathon in a race.

You are obviously in good shape what is the race target time?

i'll take anything under 2h40..

My marathoners never run marathon race pace for more than sustained 20 min, or 40 min in intervals, as a finish in

the special long run of 90 min- 2 hours 40 min.

european winter wrote:

thanks everyone for the answers.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

It's hard to say as only you know how hard it was.

Better guide is you half marathon in a race.

You are obviously in good shape what is the race target time?

i'll take anything under 2h40..

You've got a good chance.