Help me design a 20 week training plan for a sub 16 min 5000 m

I'm not going to write out a 20 week plan right now, and I am more familiar with 800/1500m training, but here are my thoughts...

Use the first 10 weeks to build up your mileage, and add in lots of steady (marathon pace-ish) workouts along with progressions and some various fartleks. Add in the fartleks towards the end of the 10 weeks so to help transition into track work. Toss in some tempos into the fartleks, progressions, or occasionally by themselves during this first 10 weeks. Early on, I'd stay away from most intervals except for maybe something easy such as 10-15x400m @ 5k goal pace with jogging rest, something to get you used to goal pace early on without being difficult or taxing.

From weeks 11-16/17, I'd add in more structured tempos, some v02 and pacework, and keep occasional M pace runs and toss on some mile pace stuff after slower workouts. i.e. 20min tempo + 6x200m @ mile pace, just for intramuscular coordination etc. Weeks 15-17 should probably be your hardest weeks where you're doing the most running at goal 5k pace. The last 3 or so weeks should be your taper where you ensure your easy days are slow, and you start to do less volume at the vo2 and 5k paces etc.

I know this isn't what you were looking for, but it's roughly** how I would structure a short 5k training plan like this.

I prefer spending more time getting in a good base, especially for 5k and stuff, but to each his own.

I would like to hear more thoughts.

dreaming of sub 16 min 5000m wrote:

I know that there is no one size fits all but I would really appreciate to hear your thoughts on a 20 week long training plan for 5000 m with the ambition of running sub 16 min. I intend to run 45-50 MPW over 6 days/week. My biggest issue is to figure out when I should run short intervals and vice versa. How long recovery should I take and at what pace should I run.

Current PR

16'36'' 5000 m

34'47'' 10 000 m

I've seen the plan of Jack Daniels but that plan would most likely leave me injured. For me it's better to have at least 1-2 easy days between two hard workouts. Are there any coaches with experience here? How many phases would you include? How would you design a program with the information above?

Thanks!

Hi.

How old are you? How long have you been running for? When did you run the times you posted and what sort of training did you do beforehand?

I'm 30 years old. I've been running for 3 years and 2 months. This year I averaged 35 mpw with 1 session of intervals usch as 3x10 min with 2 min recovery so I guess LT workouts have dominated. Rest is easy running 60 min-130 min. I haven't focused on 5K training. I also ran a half marathon in 1 16'52".

All my racing was done 6 months ago.

dreaming of sub 16 min 5000m wrote:

I know that there is no one size fits all but I would really appreciate to hear your thoughts on a 20 week long training plan for 5000 m with the ambition of running sub 16 min. I intend to run 45-50 MPW over 6 days/week. My biggest issue is to figure out when I should run short intervals and vice versa. How long recovery should I take and at what pace should I run.

Current PR

16'36'' 5000 m

34'47'' 10 000 m

I've seen the plan of Jack Daniels but that plan would most likely leave me injured. For me it's better to have at least 1-2 easy days between two hard workouts. Are there any coaches with experience here? How many phases would you include? How would you design a program with the information above?

Thanks!

In fact there actually is a training system "one size fits all". I have coached 8 international Winners in just 2,5 years time. Forget about long plans, phases and so on. Im at fb.

dreaming of sub 16 min 5000m wrote:

I'm 30 years old. I've been running for 3 years and 2 months. This year I averaged 35 mpw with 1 session of intervals usch as 3x10 min with 2 min recovery so I guess LT workouts have dominated. Rest is easy running 60 min-130 min. I haven't focused on 5K training. I also ran a half marathon in 1 16'52".

All my racing was done 6 months ago.

Thank you for your reply.

I will get back to later today.

Good response.

You may also want to consider approaching it from the other side of the spectrum. Build speed first and then taper off with tempo and race pace workouts.

Get this e-book. PM also posts sometimes around here...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pete-Magills-Keys-Running-Faster-ebook/dp/B01NCY6F1M/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

Thanks!

Anyone else?

Here is how I would structure 20 weeks:

First 4-6 weeks: Lots of easy distance and generally working on building overall volume. Quality days would consist of fartleks, progression runs or steady state runs when the mood struck you, but not more than twice per week, and nothing overly ambitious.

Next 4-6 weeks (4 weeks if first phase above was 6 weeks, 6 weeks if it was 4 weeks): One 20 minute tempo session per week, one track session per week and one long run per week. The speed session would be about 2 miles worth of 200s/400s and 600s at mile race pace (with the 600s being done only once).

Next 6 weeks: One tempo session per week, one track session per week and one long run per week. The track session would cycle through 800s (first session), 1000s, 1200, 1600s, 1200s, 1000s at 5k race pace with a little less rest than the duration of the intervals. The tempo session could be either 20 a minute tempo run. a progression run, or a longer but slightly slower tempo effort.

Final 4 weeks: One tempo session per week, one track session per week and one long run per week. Track sessions would consist of race modeling efforts (200 (at mile pace), 200 jog, 800 at 5k race pace, 200 jog, 200 at mile pace) and short reps (8 x 400 at mile pace). Tempo session would be shorter cruise intervals (1200s or 1600 at tempo pace) or progression runs.

For the record, this is a variation of a Daniels approach, but it shouldn't be overly stressful.

What average runner said basically is right.

I have run under 16 on the track, and what got me there was what got me into the 16's for the 5k. What did you do to ge to 16:36 and why would not following the same framework and staying consistent not get you below 16?

If you want to take on your goal in 20 weeks, at least 6 weeks should be spent doing easy running only and some strides for speed maintenance. The following next weeks add tempos with the easy mileage and run the tempo on feel. The first week I did 3 mile tempos I was running them at 5:45 pace. 8 weeks after I had ratcheted it down to 5:20 and it felt like a hard but manageable tempo. Add mile pace reps as avg runner said after the tempos for turnover and economy. The last 8 weeks should include vo2 stuff weekly.

I know this is a regurgitation of previous posts but there is no secret special plan to get you there; up te mileage, don't get injured, and gradually add appropriate intensity; that's it.

Piss on yo cat wrote:

The last 8 weeks should include vo2 stuff weekly.

I agree with the gist of your post, which is, why wouldn't you keep doing what you have been doing if it works?

I wanted to note one thing about the quote above, however. There are studies out there that show that it takes at least 4 weeks for there to be a detraining effect with respect to vo2max. There are also studies out there that show that vo2max gains can be achieved in 4 to 6 weeks. As a result, it really isn't necessary to have highly stressful vo2max workouts right up to your peak race. You can accrue the desired training benefits well before the peak race, and then use the last few weeks to do less stressful work.

Now in this instance, that distinction makes only a little bit of difference since much of what you might do during that last period would be race modeling work, which in the case of someone racing the 5000m, is essentially vo2max work anyway, but you can certainly avoid a hard vo2max workout the week of the race, and pick your spots over that last month before the race.

I found 8 weeks worth, with the first 2 or 3 weeks being relatively light "prime the pump" vo2 work worked for me, but what you say makes sense too, maybe i can run faster if I followed that approach.

I've also been hearing more and more on these boards about the importance of top speed development, you think there's a role for that sort of training in a 5k?

There is a huge thread about 60m sprints on here someplace. It is not something that I have done at all.

1. Be male

2. Run 40 mpw

3. Stop Eating

Done.

Thanks @Piss on yo cat and @Smoove. That was what I wanted to read :)

The reason why I'm askning for help is to get more structured. Below is my road to 16:36. It started in January 2017. The 5000 m race was in late April. I realized I mixed up that race with an other event this summer.

Mileage (in km)

http://i64.tinypic.com/im10zs.png

As you can see I didn't know anything about periodization.

Run type percentages

http://sv.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=kp0sp&s=9

Individual run types

http://i63.tinypic.com/21afy43.png

How long would a progression run be for 5K training? Let's assume my current fitness is 16:30 min. How would I structure a progression run (at what pace).

Also, what would a steady state pace be for a 16:30 min guy?

I forgot to say that my lon run pace and easy run pace is the same (7.45 min/mile)

There are several problems with this but I’ll mention the most glaring one. Too much quality after the first 4-6 weeks. Get really strong and build your mileage for 12-16 weeks. And then begin the hard workouts.