Isn’t Pose method nonsense?

You don't need to push forward once you are at top speed, due to inertia. You only need to push upward at that point.

Good form should make your legs like a rolling wheel, that's how to use no energy. I call it the Wheel method.

The Pose method implies a quasi-perpetual motion state. It's the secret to how some of these guys are so f****n fast. Ever wondered how Kipchoge smiles while running 4:30 pace for many minutes? It's because he knows the secret. The trick is you have to get under 125 lbs, otherwise it's hopeless.

He’s not smiling- that’s his pain face. And obviously you don’t know physics. In order to maintain your forward speed, you must engage some energy forward, and not only upwards. If you push only upwards, you will decelerate. It is true that in order to accelerate you put more effort forward than when at constant speed, but even when at constant speed, you must push forward, unless you are in a space weighting zero.

To answer OP's question, yes it is nonsense. To attain best running economy and form, each person must....wait for it.....run, a lot. There is nothing better for the body in learning to cover ground, the fastest and with least energy output, than repetition.

Training specificity. Coaches and exercise scientists have been preaching this for decades.

It is indeed nonsense. It's for people who are attracted to cults and cult figures.

Bad Wigins wrote:

You don't need to push forward once you are at top speed, due to inertia. You only need to push upward at that point.

Good form should make your legs like a rolling wheel, that's how to use no energy. I call it the Wheel method.

Lemme guess. Not a physics major. lol

I'll take Bro-Science for $100, Alex.

Bad Wigins wrote:

You don't need to push forward once you are at top speed, due to inertia. You only need to push upward at that point.

Good form should make your legs like a rolling wheel, that's how to use no energy. I call it the Wheel method.

I think there is something to working on not over-striding and Pose certainly can reduce that.

I was part of a team looking at changes in running economy between runners trained in Pose and those not. After 8 weeks we found no change in either group. Now I can argue that 8 weeks is not enough time, but that was the claim by Romanov (or however you spell his name).

Also I get concerned with messing too much with peoples' running forms if they have no injury history. I think you are likely to cause more harm than good.

None of these elite East Africans water money going on a POSE course.

Just been in discussion with done ultra runner on Facebook.

POSE

FAT burning.

Vibrams

Saturated fat us actually healthy & most diseases cause by carbs.

If there is a fad he's jogging to jump on the band wagon.

The technique is fine for some, it's the science behind explaining it that sucks.

yes wrote:

It is indeed nonsense. It's for people who are attracted to cults and cult figures.

^^^This. 80% of fitness thought leadership is dedicated not to the physical effects of exercise, but the superiority complex of adopting a method and believing it is greater than all other methods out there. 18% is dedicated to temporarily repressed millionaire syndrome, where you know exactly how to become an olympic athlete or bodybuilder and proclaim that the only thing limiting you is time and/or willpower. The remaining 2% is the only portion actually dedicated to the science and hard work of exercise.

Bad Wigins wrote:

You don't need to push forward once you are at top speed, due to inertia. You only need to push upward at that point.

Good form should make your legs like a rolling wheel, that's how to use no energy. I call it the Wheel method.

Do you believe you improve fitness from your runs in a vacuum?

Le Poseur wrote:

The technique is fine for some, it's the science behind explaining it that sucks.

This. Fifteen years ago, I converted from extreme heel striker to forefoot strike to hopefully treat some severe knee problems. The only method at the time to do this was the Pose Method. Here was my progress.

Week 1-6: Lots of new injuries... calf and hip pointers, IIRC. I'd run 20 seconds using the Pose, recover running normally and then repeat.

Month 6: My knee problems were gone. I had mastered the ability to run nonstop using the Pose Method, but I was still slower than my old heel strike. I looked critically at the Pose and saw that it incorrectly used the Cheetah to illustrate the wheel motion of merely lifting off the ground. That's wrong. The Cheetah (all four-legged animals) have an extra joint in their hind legs. This lower leg joint would be the heel in a human and the animal's lower leg the metatarsals in the human foot.

In effect, the Cheetah is a forefoot runner that is PUSHING OFF with its toes. The Pose Method fails to understand this and instead sees it as merely lifting the foot.

When I added a PUSH OFF with every Pose stride, I sped up a lot... a lot as being 4-5 seconds/400m, or about 15-20 seconds faster per mile. It took another 3 months to get strong enough to incorporate this push off in my modified Pose Method running style.

tl/dr.... Bottom Line: You have to push off to be fast. The Pose Method misses this critical point.

True except animals don't have an extra joint.

Yeah, you're right. It's not an extra joint or bone. I was just in a hurry to describe how the bones that would, in a human, make up the heel and midfoot instead are part of the lower leg in the cheetah.

The Pose analogy to a cheetah (that was prevalent when I learned the Pose) explained how the paw moved in a circle.

However, if you look at the lower leg of the cheetah as if it were a human foot, you can see it dorsiflex on the forward motion and push off from what would be the ankle.

Posemethod wrote:

If you push only upwards, you will decelerate. It is true that in order to accelerate you put more effort forward than when at constant speed, but even when at constant speed, you must push forward, unless you are in a space weighting zero.

People accuse ME of ignorance of physics after this nonsense?

You will decelerate if and only if there is a net braking force. Weight has nothing to do with it.

All that is necessary to prevent a braking force is for the foot to be stationary relative to the ground at footstrike. This means it must be moving backwards relative to the forward-moving body. While it's possible to prevent a braking force on the foot from decelerating the center of mass, it requires extra energy and is inefficient and most runners don't do that.

As so often happens, my offhand joke turns out to be true. Efficient running is very much like a wheel in that the point of contact is nearly at rest relative to the ground immediately before and after contact.

fisky wrote:

a forefoot runner that is PUSHING OFF with its toes. The Pose Method fails to understand this

Nearly everyone fails to understand that there is no question of "pushing off." What gets your body off the ground is accelerating it forward in front of your plant foot. This has more to do with the momentum of the lead leg, and again, the body's inertia, than accelerating the foot itself or pushing the ground backwards.

This is the difference between sprinters, or even elite marathoners (typically 13 minute 5k guys) and slow people. Knee drive, recovery, arm action, all the important stuff happens above the foot. Observe this leaping cat:

Before any significant acceleration happens in its rear legs, the rest of its body has already gotten its center of mass moving nearly enough to complete the leap.

Instead of hash marks, this is a rehash of old, old threads that seem to pop up every couple of years. Do a search and you will find plenty of discussion that doesn't need to be rehashed.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Before any significant acceleration happens in its rear legs, the rest of its body has already gotten its center of mass moving nearly enough to complete the leap.

That's because it has front legs, moran.