NY Times Article: Marathoners may not need more miles, but instead need to hit the gym for strength training of legs

I had to take about 6 months off to fix a bad knee. I went to the gym and did about 45 min of legs every other day. I just about doubled what I could lift/pull/push with quads/hams/glutes. That is not to say that I am huge now. I was just that weak. I am finally getting past my knee issue and running again. I have kept up the strength training and have not gone over 6 mi a day. I used to consistently do 50-70 mpw. There is definitely a big difference in how my legs are recovering from runs. I have yet to feel beat up the day after a decent running effort. I think the biggest benefit is improving muscle activation. I really feel like I am running on all cylinders in a way I never really had. I have no clue how this will translate into longer races as I am many months away from that. But it is interesting to put the time into the gym that I have never done before.

I thought this is what running hills is for.

vivalarepublica wrote:

I thought this is what running hills is for.

Back in the day, our coach did say running hills was the equivalent of going to the weight room.

Cheaper too!

Sara Palin wrote:

wejo wrote:

"Gym training,” including the use of machines and free weights to develop strength and power in the muscles of your legs, “can very much help to prepare muscles for the stress imposed by these long races,” Dr. del Corso says.

Umm. Have you ever heard of Jordan Hasay?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZeCdMRH_Vf/

I like spending 3 days a week on Gym Leg days.

Sandy? wrote:

Ugh, that article's evidence didn't seem to support its conclusions at all. How the heck do you conclude that gym strength training is the missing ingredient, when the study didn't even look at gym strength training. The study sounds like they did this:

1. Marathon runners train more than half-marathon runners

2. Regardless of this difference in training mileage, marathon runners had more physiological damage after their race

3. Random unsupported speculation as to the causes of this difference

You are correct.

The "expert scientist" did not study ANY strength training in his study. He just makes complete speculation...with ZERO EVIDENCE for "needing more strength training to protect against the leg damage from pounding."

All the "expert scientist" did was show that running 26.2 miles causes more muscle damage and decreases vertical jump height...more than only running only 13.1 miles.

Wow. What a huge discovery.

Gretchen should write an entire article about they study...which discovered NOTHING NEW AT ALL.

Percy Cerutty used strength training... and hills...and long runs...and aerobic mileage...and interval speedwork...etc... with his runners...in the 1950's.

He coached Herb Elliot...who won the Olympic Gold Medal in the 1960 Olympic 1500m in a World Record time of 3:35.6

Elliott credited his visionary and iconoclastic coach, Percy Cerutty, with inspiration to train harder and more naturally than anyone of his era. Cerutty was known to avoid the track, talk about role models outside athletics (such as Leonardo da Vinci and Jesus), and bring his athletes to the unspoiled seaside beauty of Portsea training camp south of Melbourne, where Elliott would sprint up sand dunes until he dropped. "Faster," Cerutty would say, "It's only pain."

1)

(The results showed that strength training improved time-trial performance, economy, vV˙O2max/wV˙O2max,and vMART in competitive endurance athletes.)

2) Video evidence:

3) Photo evidence:

It is just a Coincidental Synchronicityâ„¢.

post collegiate coach wrote:[/b

I personally started lifting in the legs (Calves, Quads, and hamstrings) during the past year due to the fact that I had hip surgery (Torn Labrum) 18 months ago to avoid further injury. The benefits have been amazing and the recovery from long hard running is the best of my running career. And I am a young masters runner.

These are encouraging words, regardless of the limitations of the study. I've attempted something similar, but haven't been able to sustain it, mostly due to time limitations.

Would you comment in more detail about your lifting -- e.g., particular exercises, heavy vs lighter weights/fewer vs more reps, frequency, and where you fit this into your running schedule (recovery days vs workout days vs substitute for a second run, etc.)

I realize this topic has likely been covered before on this forum, but would welcome input from newbies or old timers.

Why haven't we considered that maybe the marathon runners weren't well-trained for the distance? Maybe they should run more miles?

More mileage = less fatigue over longer distances

In all seriousness, I was a big weight room guy in high school. I was up there almost everyday, working all the muscle groups throughout the week, becoming friends with the meatheads. I credit my work in the weight room, along with my off season training, as the reason that I became the best runner in my high school, beating guys that crushed me my first two years in high school. Doing some weights can help.

I also had a strong mental framework and willingness to push the limits, but that backfired because I ran too hard too often.

Everything in the article is completely unsurprising. Then through the sheer power of suggestion, they say that running plus weight training will better prepare you for 26.2 miles. They base this cognitive jump on the observation that the hobby joggers who ran the marathon where much more sore even though they had run more miles than the half marathon hobby joggers. I could just as easily conclude that while the marathon hobby joggers did run more miles, they obviously did not run enough to complete their race without fading.

First of all, running is weight training. Your legs support more than your body weigh of loading forces with each step. So if you don't run an even split for a marathon, it is because you have not done enough of the specific weight training required for a marathon, i.e. running. Assuming that a different type of weight training (squats, lunges, etc) will help you in a marathon is unsupported by anything in the article. It may be true that some weight room based weight training can help in marathon training, but the article presents absolutely no information to support that conclusion.

Secondly, I call the participants in this study "hobby joggers" because they were able to do a jump test after their race. If you can do any sort of jumping after a half or full marathon, you didn't run hard enough. Therefore, this article doesn't apply to the letsrun crowd.

Lastly, the link at the end of the article is to a 9 minute weight lifting routine that is also produced by the NY Times (a former newspaper).

The only real point of the article is to drive internet traffic to their other advertisement laden page.

I suspect that weight-training would help.

However, when you're talking about 7:40+ paced runners, most are likely running 50-ish miles per week. So the biggest problem is that they're doing way too much of their weekly mileage all at once when they run their marathon. They'd see less damage if they just built up to higher mileage before going out for their marathons.

They really need to do more volume, with more intensity...and harder long runs ...with some vVO2max interval workouts...and a lot more hills...at a much higher altitude... than the puny human runners in the pathetic New York Times article by Gretchen.

For example:

https://aravaiparunning.com/network/flagstaff/

https://aravaiparunning.com/network/flagstaff/course/55k-course/

https://aravaiparunning.com/network/flagstaff/course/39k-course/

https://ultrarunning.com/featured/100-miles-across-northern-arizona-flagstaff-to-grand-canyon-stagecoach-line/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sznbJdQeZ-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvtVNKtBrok

I know how... to really... Rock and Roll.

Oh yeah.

wejo wrote:

Does that surprise anyone?

So, are we saying that -- after 25 years -- Steve Spence's methods are finally vindicated?

ndrunnerguy wrote:

Why haven't we considered that maybe the marathon runners weren't well-trained for the distance? Maybe they should run more miles?

More mileage = less fatigue over longer distances

No , add alterG miles or pool running. Win Chicago Marathon, and Olympic trials.

LannyW wrote:

ndrunnerguy wrote:

Why haven't we considered that maybe the marathon runners weren't well-trained for the distance? Maybe they should run more miles?

More mileage = less fatigue over longer distances

No , add alterG miles or pool running. Win Chicago Marathon, and Olympic trials.

Sounds great, I’ll just get those installed in my apartment.

Here is the simple routine I use for legs.

I lift 3 times a week (1-2 days between sessions). I do 3 sets of 10 reps each on a calf raise machine, leg extension, and leg curl. The amount of weight I use makes the 3rd set moderately hard. I don't kill myself. I also started with light weight when I began the routine to avoid serious DOMS. Additionally, I reduce the weight 10-20% if my legs are a bit tired from a race or very hard workout, but I NEVER miss/skip a session. I have begun to slowly add squats (Starting with light weight) into the routine in the past month.

I also incorporate 6 other machines that related to arms and core (3 sets of 10 reps each), along with crunches and plank exercises.

I move fairly quickly between machines and don't do 3 sets of one thing and then move to another. I alternate between the various machines and make sure I do each one 3 times. The whole time in the gym is approx 25-30 min. It's fairly simple but has been amazingly effective and I can tell my form remains intact during hard efforts along with not being sore from hard running/races.

We are going to have a bunch of our runners get on a program like the one above. And since we have a decent number of runners who run marathons and train at the 70-100 mpw level, it is going to be interesting if the leg fatigue decreases during hard efforts and ultimately the marathon. I'll be tracking it carefully. I should know more after the Boston marathon next spring as we have a bunch doing that race.

Dude, I have some friends running who ran a marathon recently. They emphasized cross training and strength training for balance. Instead of miles. What'd they run? Under 5 hours.

Is this RW?

Got to lift those leg weights! It's done wonders keeping me running into my late 50s despite a chronic injury history. Besides, it makes me legs look better in my kilts. 😉

Aye........

Explain to me how Kenyan and Ethiopian runners hold over 90 of the top 100 marathon times ever ran and they don't lift weights.

I'll wait.

I've always found it interesting that so many runners are afraid of weights. Some embrace it, most though think they'll "bulk up" and it ruins their stride cadence and aerobic capacity. I've been strength training since 14 (now 30) and while I'd never advice a distance runner to train specifically like a football player, or body builder, there are components of athlete's strength regimen (football, basketball, baseball,hockey) that may have a large carry over. Lower leg Injury prevention, recovery, and maintaining an appropriate level of lean muscle mass may help your longevity. If you train to body build, high reps, multiple sets, moderate weight, there's little to no athletic function, I'd def advice against that. Unless your cardio for the week is the stair master or walking on an incline. I am no elite, far from it, but my progression with mileage since my early to mid 20s has come along well and I've always believed it was my background in strength work that has supported my new endeavor. Moral of my rant, find a handful of compound exercises that support full body strength and development, keep the reps below 6, and find a weight that's maybe 80ish % max effort, you'll build efficient strength and not muscle build. Jog on hobby joggers.