4:18 Miler Scores 81 on VO2 Max Test????

How well trained was the athlete? Is he motivated? There are so many variables besides V02 Max

Not to mention that potential speed is a factor of V02 Max and Running economy. If his economy is trash, then maybe his potential is mediocre even if he has a phenomenal V02 max. Even though V02 max helps a lot.

Just thoughts

VO2 max isn't everything.

I scored higher than anyone the lab had ever seen when I was in college, and I was toward the back of my team. Not 84, but not 78.

There is low correlation between VO2 max and running ability and also high variance between VO2 max tests at different facilities. Thus, it is meaningless.

There is a high correlation between great running ability and a test showing that you have a high max.

The original study done took a bunch of elites and big surprise, they all tested high.

You can't be one without the other.

People who score high and don't run as well as they think they should need to explore all other endurance events. They will excel at SOMETHING.

VO2 is King wrote:

People who score high and don't run as well as they think they should need to explore all other endurance events. They will excel at SOMETHING.

Also wrong.

Beautiful Day wrote:

VO2 max isn't everything.

I scored higher than anyone the lab had ever seen when I was in college, and I was toward the back of my team. Not 84, but not 78.

VO2 Max doesnt mean anything!

92.5 Greg LeMond, professional cyclist

92.0 Matt Carpenter, Pikes Peak marathon course record holder

91.0 Harri Kirvesniem, Finnish cross country skier

90.0 Bjørn Dæhlie, Norwegian cross country skier

88.0 Miguel Indurain, professional cyclist

87.4 Marius Bakken, Norwegian 5k record holder

85.0 Dave Bedford, 10k world record

85.0 John Ngugi World XC Champion

84.4 Steve Prefontaine,US runner

84.3 "Physiologist in training," 15:12/30:55 runner

84.0 Lance Armstrong, professional cyclist

82.7 Gary Tuttle, US runner

82.0 Kip Keino, Olympic 1500 champion

81.1 Craig Virgin, twice World cross country champ

81.0 Jim Ryun, US miler WR holder

80.1 Steve Scott, US miler 3:47

79.4 "Runningart2004," 15:43 5k runner

78.6 Joan Benoit, 1984 Olympic Marathon Champion

78.5 Bill Rodgers, 2:09:27 marathoner

77.4 Don Kardong, 2:11:15 marathoner

77.0 Sebastian Coe. WR mile, 1500

76.6 John Landy, WR miler

76.0 Alberto Salazar, 2:08:51 marathoner

74.3 Amby Burfoot, US marathoner

74.4 Johnny Halberstadt, 2:11:44 marathoner

74.2 Kenny Moore, US marathoner 2:11:36

73.5 Grete Waitz, Norwegian Marathon runner

73.3 Bruce Fordyce ultramarathoner

73.0 Jeff Galloway, US snake oil salesman

73.0 Buddy Edelen, 2:14:28 world record marathoner (1963)

72.8 Jarmila Krotochvilova,Czech Olympian 400M/800M winner

72.3 Peter Snell, Olympic champion

72.0 Zithulele Sinqe, 2:08:05 marathoner

71.3 Frank Shorter, US Olympic Marathon winner

71.2 Ingrid Kristiansen, ex-Marathon World Record Holder

71.0 Paula Ivan, Russian Olympic 1500M Record Holder

70.3 Willie Mtolo, 2:08:15 marathoner

69.7 Derek Clayton, Australian ex-Marathon World Record holder 2:08:35

67.2 Rosa Mota, Marathon runner

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RUNNING PREDICTS RUNNING BETTER THAN PHYSIOLOGY

Noakes, T. D., Myburgh, K. H., & Schall, R. (1990). Peak treadmill running velocity during VO2max test predicts running performance. Journal of Sports Sciences, 8, 35-45.

Marathon runners (N = 20) and ultra-marathoners (N = 23) were tested for VO2max, peak treadmill running velocity, velocity at lactate turnpoint, and VO2 at 16 km/h using an incremental (1 min) treadmill test.

Results. Race times at 10, 21.1, and 42.2 km of the specialist marathoners were faster than those of the ultra-marathoners, however, only the 10 km time differed significantly. Lactate turnpoint occurred at 77.4% of VO2max and at 74.7% of peak treadmill velocity. The average VO2 at 16 km/h was 51.2 ml/kg/min which represented 78.5% of VO2max.

For all distances, performance time in other races was the best predictor of performance (r = .95 to .98).

The best laboratory predictors were: (a) peak treadmill running velocity (r = -.89 to -.94); (b) running velocity at lactate turnpoint (r = -.91 to -.93); and (c) fractional use of VO2max at 16 km/h (r = .86 to .90). The predictive value of the lactate turnpoint measure increased as the distance increased.

The poorest predictors were: VO2max (r = -.55 to -.81) and VO2 at 16 km/h (r = .40 to .45).

Conclusion. There may be no unique physiological characteristics that distinguish elite long-distance (10 km or longer) runners as is often promoted. Other factors determine success in high level sports among exclusive groups of superior athletes.

Implication. Running performance is the best predictor of running capability in elite long-distance runners. Physiological laboratory testing gives less information than does actual performance. Even the fastest speed of running on the treadmill is a better predictor than any physiological measure. This suggests that for at least endurance-dominated sports, actual performances in a variety of performance-specific situations will give more useful information than that which can be obtained in any physiology laboratory test.

Science of Running: More on VO2 Max

HardLoper wrote:

VO2 is King wrote:

People who score high and don't run as well as they think they should need to explore all other endurance events. They will excel at SOMETHING.

Also wrong.

Only because they stubbornly refuse to try other events.

VO2 is King wrote:

HardLoper wrote:

Also wrong.

Only because they stubbornly refuse to try other events.

Sure, keep telling yourself that

HardLoper wrote:

VO2 is King wrote:

Only because they stubbornly refuse to try other events.

Sure, keep telling yourself that

I tell THEM that. It's more helpful and it works when they listen.

I also tell low number people like you to embrace reality or give it up.

VO2 is King wrote:

HardLoper wrote:

Sure, keep telling yourself that

I tell THEM that. It's more helpful and it works when they listen.

I also tell low number people like you to embrace reality or give it up.

There are Olympians in the low 70s. Should they just "face reality" and give up on running?

OP: I had a teammate with a VO2 max in that same range who ran slower than that in the mile. He ran just under 31 minutes for a track 10k. The reality was just that he was super inefficient. VO2 max isn't everything. You can skew up or down in times relative to what you might expect from your VO2 max based on other factors.

Another point of interest is the small handful of tests that tested a single elite runner in the middle of the season as well as during the championship season. For the most part, these show VO2 max going down in the championship season, despite that being their fastest races. Other factors are being emphasized during this portion of the season, resulting in a peak that allows them to run faster with a slightly lower VO2 max at this time. It fits nicely with the narrative that you should build a base in the off season, increase aerobic capacity during the season, then work on race paced stuff at the end of the season.

I'm thinking that snake oil salesman has to do quite a bit of running after collecting his specimen. ;)

Nope, they meet the minimum standard to be an Olympian. Just not likely to be in the medals.

We're talking about delusional chumps who think they are going to practice until something happens with their 45-60. Like T'ardloper.

The runner showing a lower max during champs season is sandbagging the test and saving themselves for actual races.

Testing DURING a race would show the truth.

Told you so, buddy ;)

VO2 is King wrote:

The runner showing a lower max during champs season is sandbagging the test and saving themselves for actual races.

Testing DURING a race would show the truth.

You can't "sandbag" a VO2 max test. O2 consumption reaches a max and levels off long before you reach max effort.

Running Economy is everything. That's pretty much it....velocity at Vo2max, velocity at Lactate Threshold, Lactate clearance also. Had a Vo2max test earlier this year....it takes a very, very hard effort to reach Vo2max (and 100% max HR). I've done pretty hard workouts with a HR monitor on, but what I was able to achieve in the test was quite a bit higher as a max HR (mentally pretty this is hard to do in a lab with a tube in your mouth also....as it certainly doesn't feel as natural as an "all out race" effort). It is about like racing a 3km/2-mile perfectly paced (at PR effort) so you are hitting 99-100% max HR for several minutes at the end.So no, I wouldn't say O2 update is reaching a max "long before" max effort. You have to be working very, very hard.

vail was 1st wrote:

VO2 is King wrote:

The runner showing a lower max during champs season is sandbagging the test and saving themselves for actual races.

Testing DURING a race would show the truth.

You can't "sandbag" a VO2 max test. O2 consumption reaches a max and levels off long before you reach max effort.

Running is not an oxidative phosphorylation contest.

Lance an 84??? I think that might be a little on the drug-induced side...imagine that. 😅

S. Canaday wrote:

Running Economy is everything. That's pretty much it....velocity at Vo2max, velocity at Lactate Threshold, Lactate clearance also.

0/10 👎

VO2max Madness wrote:

Lance an 84??? I think that might be a little on the drug-induced side...imagine that. 😅

The point being of course that it matters no matter how you get it to go higher.