Stoppit Smith wrote:
No. you got it wrong. NOT a 4 minute drop...a 19 second drop.
5:02 to 5:21
I am talking about mile pacing over the distance.
13.1.. in 5:02 per mile
and 13.1 in 5:21 per mile...
is fairly even. In any world.
Just going to go ahead and join the rest of the knowledgeable running world and say.... you're wrong.
Droddy posts all of his training publicly on logarun. He also comments on other runner's profiles sometimes. He seems like a great guy; just a lover of running. I'd recommend checking out his log. It makes his marathon performance that much more impressive. He never wen't above 90 mps over an 8 week build- that indicates some serious talent.
I like Droddy for being a normal human. What I'll give everyone who ran Chicago was that the weather was a touch warmer than they would have liked to really go for it.
With that being said, it was interesting to hear a lot of the American men, who have fast half marathon PRs, say they were shooting for. People like Droddy and Derrick, who have run 1:01, were hoping for 2:11-12. 2:12-high for Derrick (but he did race aggressively) and 2:16 for Droddy are hopefully stepping stones. We need more people willing to take it out in 1:04-1:05.
I appreciate the Nick Arciniaga types who have a 1:03 half but 2:11 PR. You're telling me with all the resources Derrick has and a 1:01, he shouldn't be faster? It also wasn't the right day to run fast when the first half went so slow and then someone breaks the race open and then you are forced to go much quicker than what you would want to run evenly at.
90 miles per week, a lifetime high, with only 20 mile long runs is more like 10k training. Noah and his coach are thinking long term. Gradually increasing the mileage. He certainly wasn't optimally prepared for this marathon, but it's all part of the long term plan.
Agreed! Droddy has a lot of untapped potential that will be unleashed with his new training environment and Saucony sponsorship.
Stoppit Smith wrote:
I may be wrong but I am going to disagree here.
Noah was not long ago toeing the line at the trials on a distance a full 20 miles less than a marathon.
Then, subsequently, he had a great showing at a 10 miler.
Neither of these have the full dexterity of a marathon.
The fact that the 26 year old Droddy could transform himself that quickly into a 2:16 guy, which includes almost even pacing of 1:06/1:10.....
He may surprise a lot of people. I don't know many people who made this transition as quickly, and rather seamlessly as Droddy did.
a'pokf';sldkf'sd;l wrote:Great run, but no chance he gets much below 2:12. You don't break 2:10 if your debut is 2:16.
2:16 is amazing for most, but not relevant to become a factor internationally.
He even said in his pre race interview with letsrun that he would be satisfied with a 2:15. 2:16 is pretty darn close to that. i think Noah knows what he's doing and may be knocking on 2:10 within a couple years, given that he sticks with the marathon. he doesn't have close to the lifetime miles that someone like Galen Rupp would at the same age. big potential.
Stoppit Smith wrote:
I agree. I would love to see a new breed of people like Noah in this distance.
Imagine if we could find a way to get Jennings, Acosta, Symmonds and Wheating in this distance.
Spearheaded by Droddy, marathoning will never be the same.
Noah is the kind of person we need at this time and I am glad we have him.
Noah's Ark wrote:I used to coach at a school that competed regularly against DePauw and I have a ton of respect for Noah. All the kids on our team got along with him as well. Great to see kids from small schools reach out and take a shot at the big leagues.
+1
Add in guys like Ben Blankenship (worked construction just a few years ago) and Will Leer and we have a new breed of marathoners we can Ben proud of.
Reg wrote:
Ever hear of 1960s U.S. standout Buddy Edelen? His debut (in June of 1962) was a 2:31. A month later he ran 2:22, and then five months after that he became the first American to run sub-2:20 with a 2:18:56 at Fukuoka. To top that, in June of '63 he ran a WR 2:14:28 (first American to go sub-2:15). Some like to criticize Droddy for having bad form, but Edelen was anything but a stylist. To say it's impossible for Droddy to trim more than six minutes off his Chicago 2:16 is nuts.
You guys are all giving examples from 40 years ago. Training knowledge was different as was professionalism in the marathon.
By all means keep giving me examples of outliers but modern day marathoners with real potential almost never start with a 2:16 and end up being internationally competitive. Maybe he can get to 2:10 (as I previously allowed), but who cares.
We are living in a world of sub 2:05 marathon debuts by guys younger than 26.
*don't get me wrong, he is an excellent runner - he just isn't likely going to be rupp, hall or meb.
Stoppit Smith wrote:
No. you got it wrong. NOT a 4 minute drop...a 19 second drop.
5:02 to 5:21
I am talking about mile pacing over the distance.
13.1.. in 5:02 per mile
and 13.1 in 5:21 per mile...
is fairly even. In any world.
No. No it is not. I would not even consider 1:26/1:30 to be "even", even though percentage-wise it is much closer. 1:06/1:10 is not a horrible crash, but it is NOT even, anyway you slice it.
Xmznznxn wrote:
Reg wrote:Ever hear of 1960s U.S. standout Buddy Edelen? His debut (in June of 1962) was a 2:31. A month later he ran 2:22, and then five months after that he became the first American to run sub-2:20 with a 2:18:56 at Fukuoka. To top that, in June of '63 he ran a WR 2:14:28 (first American to go sub-2:15). Some like to criticize Droddy for having bad form, but Edelen was anything but a stylist. To say it's impossible for Droddy to trim more than six minutes off his Chicago 2:16 is nuts.
You guys are all giving examples from 40 years ago. Training knowledge was different as was professionalism in the marathon.
By all means keep giving me examples of outliers but modern day marathoners with real potential almost never start with a 2:16 and end up being internationally competitive. Maybe he can get to 2:10 (as I previously allowed), but who cares.
We are living in a world of sub 2:05 marathon debuts by guys younger than 26.
*don't get me wrong, he is an excellent runner - he just isn't likely going to be rupp, hall or meb.
Lol Rupp and Meb shouldn't be placed up there with Hall. And Droddy certainly shouldn't be compared with 2:05 east Africans. Rupp hasn't even shown that he can compete with them when they are in form. Hall's peak will prove to be way above Rupp and Meb never came close to touching Hall's best marathons. Look at Estrada and Chelanga too. They have great half times yet run like shit in the marathon. Look at Tadese the world record in the half and can't crack 2:10. The marathon is a totally different race. Puskedra was 4th in the Olympic Trials..is he much better than Droddy right now? No. His training was not proper for the marathon and likely purposely so. He has the potential to improve. We'll see in a few years if he has the right stuff.
I should add that I do agree it was a "good showing" after reading his training log. Considering that he was injured in June and basically had only 8 weeks to prepare it is impressive. He never ran more than 90 miles a week and never had a long run longer than 20. It explains why 1:01 didn't equate. I think 2:09 is possible.
Rupp can't compete with the East Africans? Please lmao you've gotta be kidding me
Hgjbdjbdv wrote:
90 miles per week, a lifetime high, with only 20 mile long runs is more like 10k training. Noah and his coach are thinking long term. Gradually increasing the mileage. He certainly wasn't optimally prepared for this marathon, but it's all part of the long term plan.
Benji Durden ran under 2:10 off 80-90 miles/week back in the last century.
Takinadump wrote:
Lol Rupp and Meb shouldn't be placed up there with Hall.
You're right. They've both achieved more than Hall ever did.
Xmznznxn wrote:
Reg wrote:Ever hear of 1960s U.S. standout Buddy Edelen? His debut (in June of 1962) was a 2:31. A month later he ran 2:22, and then five months after that he became the first American to run sub-2:20 with a 2:18:56 at Fukuoka. To top that, in June of '63 he ran a WR 2:14:28 (first American to go sub-2:15). Some like to criticize Droddy for having bad form, but Edelen was anything but a stylist. To say it's impossible for Droddy to trim more than six minutes off his Chicago 2:16 is nuts.
You guys are all giving examples from 40 years ago. Training knowledge was different as was professionalism in the marathon.
By all means keep giving me examples of outliers but modern day marathoners with real potential almost never start with a 2:16 and end up being internationally competitive. Maybe he can get to 2:10 (as I previously allowed), but who cares.
We are living in a world of sub 2:05 marathon debuts by guys younger than 26.
*don't get me wrong, he is an excellent runner - he just isn't likely going to be rupp, hall or meb.
By far, most people will never run marathons in under 2:10 regardless of their initial time. That's true now. It was true forty years ago and regardless of the year, a guy with a 2:16 first marathon has as good or better chance of going under 2:10 as guys with debuts slower than 2:20.
You are a troll or a halfway decent humorist, or third option is you have a lot of problems coming up in your life.
Stoppit Smith wrote:
No. you got it wrong. NOT a 4 minute drop...a 19 second drop.
5:02 to 5:21
I am talking about mile pacing over the distance.
13.1.. in 5:02 per mile
and 13.1 in 5:21 per mile...
is fairly even. In any world.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wrote:
So Rupp's 2:09 win is crap, everyone bashes him saying he sucks and is not fast. A hippie with long hair and mustache runs a 2:16 debut and he's suddenly the next coming of Clarence Del Mar............OK!
It's the Ben Blanketship Effect.
Neither.a 19 second per mile drop over the course of the other 13.11 is not that big of a differenceIn a 5k, it is only a difference of .18 milesIn a 10k, only a difference of .36In a half, it is only the difference of .76 milesIt really is not that big of a drop.I am sticking with this assessment and that will have to be that.Noah with build from this.
Bring the knowledge wrote:
You are a troll or a halfway decent humorist, or third option is you have a lot of problems coming up in your life.
Stoppit Smith wrote:No. you got it wrong. NOT a 4 minute drop...a 19 second drop.
5:02 to 5:21
I am talking about mile pacing over the distance.
13.1.. in 5:02 per mile
and 13.1 in 5:21 per mile...
is fairly even. In any world.
Right. In a half, he'd only be 3/4 of mile behind. In a 5k, 290 meters. He's right in striking position!
His first marathon sucked. If he had Jordan Hasay or Desi Davila type of marathon talent, he would have run his HM x2 plus 4-6 min, being 2:07-09. Rupp is awful too, as are all these guys running 2:10+. Very unimpressive.