Me and some friends were talking about how it looks like the Alabama men will send 3 individuals but likely not their whole team (at least that's what it looks like right now) and that got us talking about if a team has ever sent 4 individuals and not their entire team? I know some others have sent 3 (Villanova in 2015 comes to mind) but has anyone ever sent 4?
I know it's incredibly unlikely, but according to qualifying rules, I suppose it's possible. Each region sends their top 4 individuals without a qualifying team to call home (as long as they place in the top 25 in the region), and then there are 2 at large individuals out of the whole country. (I think there should be more at large individuals but that's a topic for another day)
Anyone have any good archive knowledge of this?
And if not, how many other times has a team sent 3 individuals? I can't imagine it happens very often. Villanova in 2015 is the only one that comes to mind. How many other times has this happened?
Has any team ever sent 4 individuals to NCAA nationals but not a whole team?
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Probably UTEP.
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I believe the Cornell women sent four to nationals once well before my time, and the coach actually brought a fifth runner with them and tried (unsuccessfully) to protest the NCAA to let her in the race. I'll try to find a source on that.
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joedirt wrote:
Probably UTEP.
No. In 1981, they were too busy winning their 4th title in a row (and 7th overall) with a total of 17 points. -
habs wrote:
I believe the Cornell women sent four to nationals once well before my time, and the coach actually brought a fifth runner with them and tried (unsuccessfully) to protest the NCAA to let her in the race. I'll try to find a source on that.
I remembered that from here (relevant thread by the way) but it looks like fake news:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/post.php?board=1&reply=6855379
https://trackandfieldnews.com/index.php/special-articles/338
They did qualify 3 in 1999 though:
https://trackandfieldnews.com/index.php/category-archive/352-ncaa-xc-1999-women
Based on that thread I'd say pretty confidently that no team has ever qualified four individuals. Definitely won't be Bama this year though they'll have three.
In theory, I believe it would be possible to qualify five (or even six!) for NCAAs if the fifth was one of the two 'at-large individuals' that the NCAA selects every year. But for that to happen he'd have to place in the top 25 -- AKA no more than four teams from the region total could advance, and the team in question would have to have basically no kolas points.
Relevant rules at bottom of page 16 here:
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIMWCC_PreChamps_DI_CrossCountry_20170920.pdf -
Did Nova send 4 last year? Or was it three?
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All over age 23 I presume? Like putting NBA guys in NCAA basketball tournement. I'm not impressed.
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Making sure this is open to any DII or DIII archive scholars, has this ever happened in those divisions? I know qualifying for those divisions is a little different, but I think they take more individuals anyways so maybe it's more frequent there?
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ezby wrote:
Did Nova send 4 last year? Or was it three?
I believe they only sent two last year and three in 2015. -
habs wrote:
[quote]habs wrote:
In theory, I believe it would be possible to qualify five (or even six!) for NCAAs if the fifth was one of the two 'at-large individuals' that the NCAA selects every year. But for that to happen he'd have to place in the top 25 -- AKA no more than four teams from the region total could advance, and the team in question would have to have basically no kolas points.
I never even considered being able to send 5 or 6, but I supposed that would be possible, but absolutely insane. But I guess this would be a "possible" scenario (from my understanding of the DI qualifying rules):
Team A sweeps the region 1-7 and automatically qualify
Team B takes 8-14 and automatically qualify
Team C takes 15-21 but has not at large points
Team D-ZZ have no at large points either so no push-in
Since Team C has no at large points and they can't be pushed in, they have no chance of qualifying as a team. But, all of the other runners in the region that beat Team C's runners have qualified as a team. Therefore, Team C's 1-4 qualify as individuals. Although this is technically possible but I cannot fathom how this would happen, Team C's 5 and 6 could be chosen as the two at-large individual qualifiers.
Sending 4 is very real possibility, however I think sending 5 or 6 is only technically possible. -
I know Washington State sent 2 and they were 1 and 5 in NCAAs.
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I think three happens every so often and two is very common (besides Nova, and likely Bama this year, didn't Princeton do it in like 07...I'm sure there have been others). If you have a weak region that will only get automatic team bids, those individual spots are pretty easy to pick off for higher level guys on teams that lack depth.
Not unheard for an SEC type school, in a weak region, to have three scholarships tied up in three blue chip guys, and then have no one else under 25:15.
With that said, I have never seen 4, and no team will ever have 5 or 6. No athlete, who rates 5th or 6th on a program that does not receive a bid will ever win an at large individual bid. -
I'm pretty sure nova sent at least 3 2 years ago. Mcentee, tiernan, denault and maybe one other?
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1981 was a long time ago. Most posters on the board probably were not even born by then. Just saying that they have had a number of years where they have had 3-4 Kenyan studs but nobody else beyond that as of late (looks like you have 3 this year, as your other guys were running 40:00 for 8k at Notre Dame).
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joedirt wrote:
1981 was a long time ago. Most posters on the board probably were not even born by then. Just saying that they have had a number of years where they have had 3-4 Kenyan studs but nobody else beyond that as of late (looks like you have 3 this year, as your other guys were running 40:00 for 8k at Notre Dame).
Do you have any specific year and team that has sent 4? -
Sliding Scale wrote:
With that said, I have never seen 4, and no team will ever have 5 or 6. No athlete, who rates 5th or 6th on a program that does not receive a bid will ever win an at large individual bid.
Agreed. Although technically possible based on rules, the scenario where that would happen is too ridiculous. -
Yes, 2000 Southern Miss sent 4 guys.
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lk wrote:
Yes, 2000 Southern Miss sent 4 guys.
Assuming you were talking about Missouri Southern State (correct me if I'm wrong), but the results said they placed 6th as a team in 2000 at the DII championships. -
Not NCAA, however, I recall this happened in JUCO nationals in 1980. College of Southern Idaho went 1-2-3-12 at the regional XC meet, qualifying all 4 individuals, but ended up the 3rd team and didn't qualify as a team. Adrian Royal went on to win the JUCO nationals a week later. Two weeks later he was trash-talking about beating Alberto and then went out and did just that at the TAC nationals. Go JUCO!
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Seagraves wrote:
lk wrote:
Yes, 2000 Southern Miss sent 4 guys.
Assuming you were talking about Missouri Southern State (correct me if I'm wrong), but the results said they placed 6th as a team in 2000 at the DII championships.
Or if you were talking about the University of Southern Mississippi, assuming they were DI in 2000 (it says they were in the Conference USA since 1995) I did not see anyone on the results for the DI champs in 2000 from Southern Miss. I assumed Mo. Southern St. after looking at DI first and not seeing them.
