12 weeks to go in a Sub 2:20 Marathon Plan, how would you write it?

Seems like you really don't need much advice and know what you're doing.

I'd go with two workouts a week and a long run. Some weeks, the second workout and the long run would be combined. I'd have a good 3 week taper, but that's because I'm older and would need the recovery more. 2 weeks were I in my early 30s or younger. If he 20 or so workouts I'd do before the taper, 2 would involve 13-15 at marathon pace. There would be a few vo2max maintenance intervals - maybe 3 or 4 of those. There would be 8 or so tempo sessions (4 x 2 miles, 6 x 1 mile, etc.) and probably 6 long run/tempo session combos (2 easy; 4 x 1 mile; 10 easy; 4 miles tempo; 2 miles easy).

That would be the crux of it. That's pretty much what I do now, except I skip the vo2max maintenance stuff because it's too much on my 40 something year old body. But were I a younger man, I'd want to try to work that in (but I'd skip that if anything if I were starting to feel excessively fatigued).

I don't really have anything to add, because that training format is way above my training format, and sub 2;20 is about 30 mins above my ability. I'm blown away by the 140 and 150 miles a week that you put in.

I'm just posting to say good luck, and I hope you nail that time. Sub 2:20 is a sub elite time.

Good luck. Please keep us posted what you end up doing and how the race goes. I have my sights set on sub-2:20 as well and love to see how others structure their training.

I did not do as much volume as that BITD, so season to taste, but a couple of thoughts:

- Consider doing your long runs (which I define as 18-22mi) every "other" week instead of once a week, but make your long runs challenging -- not as fast as your target MP but low-6 pace early and below-6 pace for most of it.

- Plan to make every third or fourth week a planned "low week" -- refresh, recharge, and even get a little fidgety.

- Keep racing occasionally to keep your competitive edge, and make the week leading up to the race your 'low week". But when your goal is a marathon, that's your only true "race" -- the rest are marathon prep. So train through them, just train a little less.

- Don't get "greedy" and try to overload. Based on those numbers I think the only things that can keep you from breaking 2:20 are a 90-degree day or an injury. You have been at high volume for a while, so the foundation is well built. No need to try 160-mile weeks or 3-workouts a week.

- I agree with "Smoove" about tapering. Be serious about it. Better to go into the race feeling a little undercooked than overcooked.

Forcerunner- just wanted to say it's awesome to see your strong progression. Keep it up man. I'm nowhere near your level and not in any position to give you training advice. for me the hardest things to sort out have been taper and fueling during the race. (I'm guessing they'll let you have your own bottles on the course though, so you won't have to deal with the CIM "Nuun only" situation.)

I don't have any advice. Good luck!

FFS. 2:20 is an elite time. Full stop, no discussion.

NYC is not CIM but I'm familiar with NYC so, just as an example:

29,927 men finished the NY marathon last year. 14 broke 2:20, 38 broke 2:30.

CIM is a much faster course than NYC and is going to be stacked with Americans this year as it will be the US marathon championship.

Far more than 14 are going to go sub 2:20. I'd be surprised if fewer than 25 go through the half faster than 1:09. I know at least 5 guys who will be going out that hard from Florida, which is hardly the marathoning mecca of the country.

That will make it a great race for those shooting for an OT. It also means people are going to need to be disciplined and not get caught up in the excitement early on.

Keep us posted OP.

Why haven't you responded back to these helpful post?

Anyways, you seem to be on track. Have you ever run a marathon before? Also, you might be doing too many workouts a week. I'd change it up a bit and do:

Monday - Easy Single

Tuesday - Easy Double

Wednesday - Workout (4x2 mile, 6x1 mile, 3x3 mile, etc...)

Thursday - Easy Double

Friday - Easy Double

Saturday - Easy Double

Sunday - LR + Workout

Good Luck!

Agreed, but still, if 25 out of 7,000 go sub-2:20 then that still means running 2:20 puts you in the top 0.4% of a stacked field.

Running performance is a weirdly attenuated bell-curve but no-one can argue that the top 0.4% of anything is not elite.

And yes, would love to hear from the OP once the dust settles.

I didn't realize that you were responding to Scorpion Runner's sub-elite comment. I just thought you were commenting generally.

The cutoff line on these kinds of things is so subjective that it is almost pointless to discuss; but I will say that if you run 2:19:xx or faster and ask for a race director at any race to put you in the elite field, particularly as an American, I think your request will be granted at any race in the country with an elite field. For whatever that is worth.

Not meant to wander off the topic, but some women have run sub 2:20 as well. I think for a man to be called an elite, he should be able to beat all women on the planet at the distance.

Forcerunner wrote:

For reference:

Races run in last 12 weeks: 5mi in 24:12, 5k in 14:27, 20k in 1:03:35.

Okay, after plugging E.S.'s 5k time of 14:27; which is a smokin' fast road time, I would say the emphasis should be more marathon specific. 14:27 projects a sub 2:19, but a 1:03:35 20k projects a high 2:20... So work on some strength/marathon stuff! Cut the speed out now and turn into an aerobic beast! This guy has some potential.[quote]Sledge_hammer wrote:

Thanks for all the replies!

Smoove - I agree with your point about the v02 stuff in the midst of hard training stuff. Even though I'm not that old, it just beats me up too much to be able to handle the training as consistent.

scorpion_runner - Thanks!

jewbacca - Thanks!

Joseph McVeigh - The general structure of that mid week long run is time on feet, the sunday long run is a workout in the middle of a longer run. So both technically long runs, but different things making them up. I'll be racing on 10/15 and on Thanksgiving to keep that edge there.

slo-twitch - Thank you! Yes we're supposed to get our own bottles. Still not sure exactly what I'm going to put in those. Not a nuun fan. I'll probably do just water with a gel taped to it.

doot doot - Thanks!

OnePieceToe - I posted before I went to bed last night and just got to my computer at work today... so now I'm responding! I ran my one and only marathon in 2015 in 2:31:58. I could cite a few excuses of why I didn't run fast but I was definitely nowhere near the type of shape I'm in now. Also I agree withe the 5k/20k comparison, but the two were on very very different courses. The 5k was completely flat and a familiar course. The 20k had slight rolls to it with one large uphill towards the end. Plus, the longer the distance the more chance for slowing down. Thanks for the input!

Why?

Sledge_hammer wrote:

Not meant to wander off the topic, but some women have run sub 2:20 as well. I think for a man to be called an elite, he should be able to beat all women on the planet at the distance.

Double posting, but if anyone is curious with what I have scheduled through 10/15:

Week of: 9/11

M - Easy double

T - 8 x 800 with 200 jog

W - 22

R - Easy double

F - 16 x 1:00 on 1:00 off

S - Easy Double

S - 4-6 x 1mile on 1 mile off

Week of: 9/18

M - Easy

T - 8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1 on with 1 off

W - 22

R - Easy

F - 1 min on 1min off

S - Easy

S - 20mi @ 90-95% MP

Week of 9/25

M - Easy

T - Easy

W - 20

R - Easy

F - 1 min on 1min off

S - Easy

S - 15 @ MP

Week of 10/2

M - Easy

T - Easy

W - Easy

R - Fartlek of some kind

F - Easy

S - Easy

S - 6 x 1mi

Week of 10/9

M - Easy

T - 2min on 2min off

W - Easy

R - Easy

F - 1min on 1min off

S - Easy

S - Columbus Half Marathon

very impressive, you will make it, good luck!

(nevertheless, i dare to say that i can not see a regular rest day or something like a chance to get in better recovery. what happens on sunday? considering the whole week, do you really need a long run on sunday plus another workout? example for better recovery: tuesday and wednesday are quite hard, why not just one easy run on thursday or total rest, therefore friday am: short and easy run to shake out your legs, pm: workout?)

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Why?

Sledge_hammer wrote:

Not meant to wander off the topic, but some women have run sub 2:20 as well. I think for a man to be called an elite, he should be able to beat all women on the planet at the distance.

A 2:20 marathoner is not elite or even close to it.