My daughter is a freshman runner on her highschool cross country team. She has some talent and finished her first two races as the second runner on her team in both races.
A lot of the upperclassmen are telling her to enjoy it while it lasts because they all got slower as they got older and it will happen to her too. Is this just the blabbering of jealous upperclassmen getting beat by a freshman, or do girls generally get slower as they mature?
Sounds Like a shit program that makes everyone slower. Then freshman would be the best time
Unfortunately what they are saying is probably true for a vast number of high school girls. While boys go through significant growth spurts and dramatic running improvements if trained properly, girls will go through puberty related changes that will likely increase their weight and change their shape in ways that will make them slow or plateau in their running times. On top of that, girls are much more likely to have iron deficiencies that will slow them down too.
Here's a good read for you and your daughter:
http://www.milesplit.com/articles/211759/dear-younger-me-lauren-fleshman
Best thing to do is be supportive, patient and persistent. And do a lot of research or find out from others on how to train, eat, rest, supplement and set expectations accordingly.
I have a freshman daughter who has had a lot of success in running for the past couple years and we will be facing the same challenges.
In the words of noted French crooner Maurice Chevalier: "thank heaven, for leetle girls, they grow up in the most delightful ways..."
Creepy? Mai's non!
Father of a freshman girl wrote:
Unfortunately what they are saying is probably true for a vast number of high school girls. While boys go through significant growth spurts and dramatic running improvements if trained properly, girls will go through puberty related changes that will likely increase their weight and change their shape in ways that will make them slow or plateau in their running times. On top of that, girls are much more likely to have iron deficiencies that will slow them down too.
Here's a good read for you and your daughter:
http://www.milesplit.com/articles/211759/dear-younger-me-lauren-fleshmanBest thing to do is be supportive, patient and persistent. And do a lot of research or find out from others on how to train, eat, rest, supplement and set expectations accordingly.
I have a freshman daughter who has had a lot of success in running for the past couple years and we will be facing the same challenges.
Except Lauren Fleshman got faster throughout her career...
Father of a freshman girl wrote:
Unfortunately what they are saying is probably true for a vast number of high school girls. While boys go through significant growth spurts and dramatic running improvements if trained properly, girls will go through puberty related changes that will likely increase their weight and change their shape in ways that will make them slow or plateau in their running times. On top of that, girls are much more likely to have iron deficiencies that will slow them down too.
Here's a good read for you and your daughter:
Best thing to do is be supportive, patient and persistent. And do a lot of research or find out from others on how to train, eat, rest, supplement and set expectations accordingly.
I have a freshman daughter who has had a lot of success in running for the past couple years and we will be facing the same challenges.
Thanks for the article and insight. Very helpful.
Sdfssfsdfsdfsdf wrote:
Except Lauren Fleshman got faster throughout her career...
I think you should try actually reading the article.
No that's wrong. I've made my biggest improvements from junior to senior year.
LoneStarXC wrote:
No that's wrong. I've made my biggest improvements from junior to senior year.
Congratulations, you had the genetics for it.
It isn't just genetics. It can be coaching and mental care if things aren't always on the upswing. In good programs, the majority of girls continue to improve.
Not if it's good wrote:
It isn't just genetics. It can be coaching and mental care if things aren't always on the upswing. In good programs, the majority of girls continue to improve.
...you are saying, the good programs know the 'secret". please list a few of these good programs you refer to.
the truth is its fairly common for this to happen... for numerous reason. however, it doesn't happen to all girls... so OP it may not happen to your daughter. good luck!
The best girls in our school were the ones who hit puberty before they started running.
Some advice wrote:
Sdfssfsdfsdfsdf wrote:Except Lauren Fleshman got faster throughout her career...
I think you should try actually reading the article.
concur with above, but I'd revise to:
I think you should try actaully reading the article, dip$hit.
I'm not so polite.
So......... wrote:
Not if it's good wrote:It isn't just genetics. It can be coaching and mental care if things aren't always on the upswing. In good programs, the majority of girls continue to improve.
...you are saying, the good programs know the 'secret". please list a few of these good programs you refer to.
the truth is its fairly common for this to happen... for numerous reason. however, it doesn't happen to all girls... so OP it may not happen to your daughter. good luck!
"There aren't any secrets"
-----said at least once by every cross country coach in America
What you have to do is go out and learn from other people and care enough about the people you work with. Your daughter must believe in her dreams and be diligent about her workouts, diet, and cross training. Make your own luck! The rear end does not have to be as big as you think!
A lot goes into this and no one has it figured out and few can even relate to it well as most don't try.
The article posted above is great.
A few things to consider:
Boys will naturally get better as they mature and usually will get faster even if they don't work that hard. Girls who are maturing kind of get stuck, if they don't work hard, they clearly won't get better, but even if they do work hard they may not get better as fast as they want to.
Puberty hits some girls really bad and those may not ever be able to get back to the performances they had before that. I believe that number is a minority though. I believe a lot will certainly go through a plateau or slight regression period which in my experience covers 1 track and 1 xc season roughly. Just depends on which one is first. In my coaching experience this most often starts at some point during sophomore year in HS. The tricky part about this, especially with girls who are committed and have been successful is they don't like regression, so mentally it can be very hard to get through. On top of that for me as a male coach it's not something you really talk to the girls about. Occasionally parents will bring it up and you can have a conversation with them and it probably gets passed on. But a majority of the girls that I have coached who stay committed and patient will usually bounce out of this phase middle of junior year and can achieve better performances at the end of HS. Then there are some that it won't effect much at all.
I suspect that many girls combat (mostly unconsciously) the "pubertal regression" with eating disorders. The sad part is that this strategy works for many of them...for a short term. Buys them a year or two.
The girls' HS 3200/5000 meter record list is littered with the casualties of this phenomenon(not including Emily Sisson, thank god).
CoachHammel wrote:
A lot goes into this and no one has it figured out and few can even relate to it well as most don't try.
The article posted above is great.
A few things to consider:
Boys will naturally get better as they mature and usually will get faster even if they don't work that hard. Girls who are maturing kind of get stuck, if they don't work hard, they clearly won't get better, but even if they do work hard they may not get better as fast as they want to.
Puberty hits some girls really bad and those may not ever be able to get back to the performances they had before that. I believe that number is a minority though. I believe a lot will certainly go through a plateau or slight regression period which in my experience covers 1 track and 1 xc season roughly. Just depends on which one is first. In my coaching experience this most often starts at some point during sophomore year in HS. The tricky part about this, especially with girls who are committed and have been successful is they don't like regression, so mentally it can be very hard to get through. On top of that for me as a male coach it's not something you really talk to the girls about. Occasionally parents will bring it up and you can have a conversation with them and it probably gets passed on. But a majority of the girls that I have coached who stay committed and patient will usually bounce out of this phase middle of junior year and can achieve better performances at the end of HS. Then there are some that it won't effect much at all.
This is the best answer (along with Lauren's well-written article). If girls stay diligent and patient while they go through the physical and emotional changes of puberty, they can and often do come out better and stronger in the end. Looking at the elite women runners, the vast majority are healthy looking, strong women who have clearly gone through puberty and (gasp!) even given birth!
The teammates that said that to the freshman are jerks.
Not if it's good wrote:
It isn't just genetics. It can be coaching and mental care if things aren't always on the upswing. In good programs, the majority of girls continue to improve.
Some girls hips grow up to ten inches (without a change in diet) during puberty.
There was a female sprinter I knew who was good as a kid (12 high/13 low) between age 8-12 then as soon as she hit puberty breaking 15 is a task.
A few things we've observed on our team:
- A period of stagnation is fairly normal when girls hit a growth spurt. It usually lasts 6-9 months (which ends up impacting 1-2 seasons).
- A lot of girls are more injury prone during that growth spurt. We try to do strength work 4x a week and we've had significantly less injuries than when we were only doing strength 2x a week.
- Many of the girls struggle with the mental side of stalling for a season. We do get a number of girls that are not willing to continue working when they don't see immediate results and decide to spend their time doing other things (especially in the summe and winter). Those are typically the girls that don't improve. I don't think I've ever had someone that has maintained their level of commitment and not ended up faster as a senior than as a freshmen (even if there was a slow SO or JR year in there). My biggest challenge as a coach is keeping girls mentally engaged when they don't make progress one season.
- We talk very openly about the fact that your running will not show always show linear progress, that bumps in training are normal and that this sport requires delayed gratification. Coaches that just concede that most girls get slower are doing a disservice to their athletes.
hs girls coach wrote:
A few things we've observed on our team:
- A period of stagnation is fairly normal when girls hit a growth spurt. It usually lasts 6-9 months (which ends up impacting 1-2 seasons).
- A lot of girls are more injury prone during that growth spurt. We try to do strength work 4x a week and we've had significantly less injuries than when we were only doing strength 2x a week.
- Many of the girls struggle with the mental side of stalling for a season. We do get a number of girls that are not willing to continue working when they don't see immediate results and decide to spend their time doing other things (especially in the summe and winter). Those are typically the girls that don't improve. I don't think I've ever had someone that has maintained their level of commitment and not ended up faster as a senior than as a freshmen (even if there was a slow SO or JR year in there). My biggest challenge as a coach is keeping girls mentally engaged when they don't make progress one season.
- We talk very openly about the fact that your running will not show always show linear progress, that bumps in training are normal and that this sport requires delayed gratification.
Coaches that just concede that most girls get slower are doing a disservice to their athletes.
Excellent answer.
It can be really, really hard to work through the rapid body changes, and plateau/slow, and school pressures, and cohort "drama" and.... when before getting faster was mostly a matter of "just working out."
It requires an enormous amount of support in terms of time and energy talking a kid through it all. However, the life skills acquired are worth it regardless of whatever happens with running.
I speak from personal experience.
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Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts
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