How come "epo time" marathon times were weak?

Blame it on Berlin.

Kid running after kipchoge wrote:

I say the reason for not breaking WR times or even getting closer is because today's track athletes are weaker. The major talents go straight to the marathon as Bekele said.

Kenenisa Bekele? He did not went straight to the marathon. He had one of the most successful track careers in history. Bekele started his marathon career in the 2014 Paris Marathon on April 2014. Lay down the weed bro!

Kid running after kipchoge wrote:

Many people here claim that track distance runners of today don't get close to WR because back then they used epo and now they can't. Well how this argument fits with the very fast marathon times of today? Athletes can't break WR in 1500m-10k on the track, yet breaking records and having many many marathon runners that go well beyond the records of the so called "epo era". The fast marathon times of today contradict and crash the epo era argument. I say the reason for not breaking WR times or even getting closer is because today's track athletes are weaker. The major talents go straight to the marathon as Bekele said.

For every great East African distance time, there is a sketchy European doctor/agent/manager/coach in the background.

The 'Renatos' started off sending their science projects out on the track, it was only later on that they decided to hit the road en masse.

epo doesn't help marathon. Why would it? It's a relative jog and nowhere near stressful aerobically.

90's track stars successfully converted to marathon because of the efficiency they gained in running at fast paces, probably.

doctorj wrote:

Kid running after kipchoge wrote:

I say the reason for not breaking WR times or even getting closer is because today's track athletes are weaker. The major talents go straight to the marathon as Bekele said.

Kenenisa Bekele? He did not went straight to the marathon. He had one of the most successful track careers in history. Bekele started his marathon career in the 2014 Paris Marathon on April 2014. Lay down the weed bro!

You are a very intelligent man. Don't you think there is a reason why the talents skip the track? Bekele talked about it, but I thought since people have more than one brain cell they might look for independently. In your case I was wrong. Well Bekele says that in his track time the Golden League was much more rewarding financially, than today's Diamond League. You dig? Or do I have to tell you as well What are the consequences of a less rewarding track?

trollism wrote:

Kid running after kipchoge wrote:

Many people here claim that track distance runners of today don't get close to WR because back then they used epo and now they can't. Well how this argument fits with the very fast marathon times of today? Athletes can't break WR in 1500m-10k on the track, yet breaking records and having many many marathon runners that go well beyond the records of the so called "epo era". The fast marathon times of today contradict and crash the epo era argument. I say the reason for not breaking WR times or even getting closer is because today's track athletes are weaker. The major talents go straight to the marathon as Bekele said.

For every great East African distance time, there is a sketchy European doctor/agent/manager/coach in the background.

So true, Kim McDonald and Jos Hermans immediately come to mind, the Rosas too. There was alot more $ in track in the 1990s with the exception of Bolt.

Manager maybe, coach? No. The coaches of the east africans are africans. Patrick sang etc

Kid running after kipchoge wrote:

Manager maybe, coach? No. The coaches of the east africans are africans. Patrick sang etc

Trollism said doctor/agent/manager/coach and I named some dodgy agents/managers.

Also "epo era" but I realised you are ESL.

EPO doesn't help with marathons, that's why mo can't run them

Bad Wigins wrote:

epo doesn't help marathon. Why would it? It's a relative jog and nowhere near stressful aerobically.

Sumgong didn't think so. 😉

Bad Wigins wrote:

epo doesn't help marathon. Why would it? It's a relative jog and nowhere near stressful aerobically.

90's track stars successfully converted to marathon because of the efficiency they gained in running at fast paces, probably.

Not true. Greater aerobic capacity via EPO spares muscle glycogen which is huge in the marathon. Paula ran insane marathon times at the tail end of the EPO era.

Kid running after kipchoge wrote:

doctorj wrote:

Kenenisa Bekele? He did not went straight to the marathon. He had one of the most successful track careers in history. Bekele started his marathon career in the 2014 Paris Marathon on April 2014. Lay down the weed bro!

You are a very intelligent man. Don't you think there is a reason why the talents skip the track? Bekele talked about it, but I thought since people have more than one brain cell they might look for independently. In your case I was wrong. Well Bekele says that in his track time the Golden League was much more rewarding financially, than today's Diamond League. You dig? Or do I have to tell you as well What are the consequences of a less rewarding track?

Major talents? Marathon?? What a joke! An aged track runner who was not the best, Kipchoge, goes and runs the marathon and he beats all the "major talents" easily.

Rocket Fuel Rick wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

epo doesn't help marathon. Why would it? It's a relative jog and nowhere near stressful aerobically.

Sumgong didn't think so. 😉

Sumgong couldn't even break 2:20 with EPO.

Nonsense wrote:

Not true. Greater aerobic capacity via EPO spares muscle glycogen which is huge in the marathon. Paula ran insane marathon times at the tail end of the EPO era.

Good point. And there are numerous marathoners who have tested positive for EPO or have been sanctioned for hematological anomalies of their ABP:

Interesting... wrote:

Sumgong couldn't even break 2:20 with EPO.

Big deal. She won gold at Rio which, unfortunately, it looks like she'll get to keep. Dopers at the elite level always seem to make out like bandits these days. Sumgong keeps her gold, Poistogova keeps her bronze from the 2012 Olympics. I guess it pays off in the long run to dope as a pro...who would have thought. 😄

Nonsense wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

epo doesn't help marathon. Why would it? It's a relative jog and nowhere near stressful aerobically.

90's track stars successfully converted to marathon because of the efficiency they gained in running at fast paces, probably.

Not true. Greater aerobic capacity via EPO spares muscle glycogen which is huge in the marathon. Paula ran insane marathon times at the tail end of the EPO era.

Greater aerobic capacity spares muscle glycogen??? Really???

How does that work then, oh great genius of trolling?

trollism wrote:

For every great East African distance time, there is a sketchy European doctor/agent/manager/coach in the background.

The 'Renatos' started off sending their science projects out on the track, it was only later on that they decided to hit the road en masse.

You continue to be one of the more ignorant smart people on this board.

The explanation could be that if arterial oxygen content is higher, your heart rate is lower at given constant submaximal workload (ie. marathon speed), so it would be logical that you could have a leftward swift in this curve.

http://www.runtothefinish.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/fatburn.jpg

As you can see, the proportion of fat vs. carb is very responsive to changes in HR also at the intensities of 75 % - 85 % and the cumulative glycogen sparing effect could be significant during 26 miles.

Another possible beneficial effect with rEPO during marathon could be that as the oxygen demand of working muscles is met with lower blood flow, the greater proportion of blood could be directed to brain and thermoregulation, so both subjective mood and heat tolerance could be enhanced.

Again, there is very little research performed on these mechanisms, so this is just armchair speculation. In any case, I have my own reasons not to believe that rEPO is a magic potion, but I still do find the physiology behind these mechanisms still interesting.

Is it obvious that the young runners who go straight to the marathon would dominate track if had done that instead. We have a few examples, Bedam Karioki and Kamworor. They are dominating the 1/2 but cannot beat

Mo Farah. I think they are around 13 min in 5000m.