Really. Can't find anything. What kind of program are they on?!?
Really. Can't find anything. What kind of program are they on?!?
Even more secretive about workouts than Salazar and NOP. Couple that with his athletes showing up on the "Likely Doping" Fancy Bears report, and it's pretty clear to see what the program is in Portland.
I wish fancy bears would leak workout logs. Would do more for the greater good of running.
Badger miles.
One Steve Magness podcast on the marathon alluded to huge back to back workout days. That's all I got.
I don't think it's anything earth shattering. Conjecture based on bits and pieces over the years. Big volume workouts, high intensity, and the best North American athletes outside the NOP. They don't back away from training extremely hard and as an outsider it seems like it comes at the cost of a decent amount injuries - but that's unavoidable I suppose.
Get a bunch of NCAA Champions, a bunch of athletes that are good enough to make US teams while in college, put them at altitude, run them very hard.
Works 50% of the time (most get hurt but these athletes are so good they can get hurt and still make US teams...lnfield, Quigley, Jager was hurt this year, Shalane almost did it) and when it does you will get a medal.
A little bit of hard work, a lotta bit of EPO.
ACMC wrote:
Get a bunch of NCAA Champions, a bunch of athletes that are good enough to make US teams while in college, put them at altitude, run them very hard.
Works 50% of the time (most get hurt but these athletes are so good they can get hurt and still make US teams...lnfield, Quigley, Jager was hurt this year, Shalane almost did it) and when it does you will get a medal.
50% is "most"?
Stay Woke wrote:
A little bit of hard work, a lotta bit of EPO.
Curious what your thoughts are on Farah and Aden's group?
A) they get the best talent to begin with
B) the best talent is training together making them even better
C) they train and push themselves really hard
In short "the rich get richer"
I don't think there's very many secrets
What other group in the US attracts that much talent, has as many top crops runners as they do to push themselves, and have athletes that are work hogs? NOP maybe, but they don't have even has as much depth.
Club A) not much talent, but the consistent high intensity training over time allows its athletes to develop
Club B) talented athletes but don't train at a very high intensity
Club C) talented athletes that train really hard, but don't have very many people to push them
Club D) A LOT of talented athletes that train really hard and have people to push them to be the best they can be
Bowerman is Club D
No doubt, but I am damn curious to see what that intensity looks like. His athletes talk about it with fear.
In reading quotes from the runners about there training about mileage being consistently high and always being in shape. Those aspects sound alot like what NIc Bideau and the Melbourne Track club practice.
Craig Mottram famously said once I am never more then 6 weeks away from sub 13.
And when you hear that and look at his training log it indicates that there isnt really any point of the year that he wasnt "Fit" or very close to top fitness.
So standard Arthur Lydiard of going from Base work and then transitioning into faster work isn't the case for the kind of training the Mottram and I assume Schumacher is talking about.
"Your observation that I’m in good shape for several distances throughout the year is because my aerobic fitness is good all year; the base is always there. The basic principle is a lot of running, longer reps and pace runs. There are maybe only six weeks in the year when I’m not at 150 to 170 kilometers for the week. I don’t go much below 140 kilometers a week even when racing in the European summer"
"But to be honest, if I need to be, I’m never more than six weeks away from being in sub-13:00 shape."
-Craig Mottram
Now I could be wrong but in the breif little sound bits I hear from Jerry's athletes they tend to explain that there training sounds alot like what Craig Mottram is saying.
Can someone explain how this works over the course of a year (multiple seasons?) One of the biggest arguments for periodization is to avoid burnout, but it sounds like this tosses that out that window in favor of just training hard all of the time.
NietzschesDelight wrote:
In reading quotes from the runners about there training about mileage being consistently high and always being in shape. Those aspects sound alot like what NIc Bideau and the Melbourne Track club practice.
Craig Mottram famously said once I am never more then 6 weeks away from sub 13.
And when you hear that and look at his training log it indicates that there isnt really any point of the year that he wasnt "Fit" or very close to top fitness.
So standard Arthur Lydiard of going from Base work and then transitioning into faster work isn't the case for the kind of training the Mottram and I assume Schumacher is talking about.
"Your observation that I’m in good shape for several distances throughout the year is because my aerobic fitness is good all year; the base is always there. The basic principle is a lot of running, longer reps and pace runs. There are maybe only six weeks in the year when I’m not at 150 to 170 kilometers for the week. I don’t go much below 140 kilometers a week even when racing in the European summer"
"But to be honest, if I need to be, I’m never more than six weeks away from being in sub-13:00 shape."
-Craig Mottram
Now I could be wrong but in the breif little sound bits I hear from Jerry's athletes they tend to explain that there training sounds alot like what Craig Mottram is saying.
Loop this around to the "Summer of Webb." What is a coach's role? Its mostly to give confidence that the assigned training is working, and therefore to prevent them from slamming workouts. What Bowerman called "the hay's in the barn." Jerry is teaching them to feel the run. Webb wanted to be told exactly what to do.
Granted, a fine line. But Webb never had it, because Rackzo never had it. So Webb has the fastest mile run in April, and was awesome in July. In 2007. And was wrecked when it counted. Sort of like a minor league home run record: "Kind of a dubious record, don't you think?" For those of us who value championships over "just" fast times. Webb admits he didn't have the patience. And that's the coach's job. Back to Bowerman, who threatened his runners with a proverbial 2x4 if he saw them doing extra training. Its why US women do better than US men - they listen to the coach. And now we have some US men listening to their coaches, and its showing: Evan, Galen, Matthew. Bernard listened his entire career, and the results show.
I listened to a podcast where Shalane Flanagan briefly described the training as very "simplistic." She said they run a lot of miles with an emphasis on hard long runs (Canova-esque). They also do 6-10 miles of a speed per week but she did not specify what type of work exactly. So basically, one long run and one faster-paced session per week.
I thought that David Vidal's justification of progressions was very useful:
""The thing about the typical runner is they go out and they run 7:30 pace every day, and they get really good at running 7:30 pace," Vidal says. "And, maybe they do workouts at race pace. They think that as long as they have the mileage, and they have the speed work, they're going to be ready to go. But they still have these huge gaps in fitness."
This makes sense. A lot of runners wonder why their race pace work doesn't translate upward to the races. Tempos do a lot for it because they get strong continuous pacing. But progressions can help for the reasons he states, filling in the gaps where you otherwise might never train.
Characteristically, an article about Jerry's training principles does not feature any quotes from the man himself, even with the author running for OTC. And of course he adds the idiosyncratic "rhythm run" term to his already idiosyncratic badger miles.
Kara Goucher was just interviewed on Citius Mag and her stint with Jerry got brought up. She said that at one point she was coming back off of her post season break and her first workout was a 4 mile tempo + 12x400
Julia Webb posted a week of Alan's training log from 2012, think this was when he was with Jerry.
After all these posts, I still feel like I don't know what Jerry's training is all about.
That said, I'm not sure what Alberto's is about either...