Should long runs be capped at 150 minutes?

its only a little over 26 mile wrote:

If you don't run longer than 2.5 hours, how are you going to figure out what you can and cannot eat and drink during a long race?

Is that one idiot saying running a few hours on a flat man-made surface is harder than biking up and down treacherous rocky technical mountain trails?

That seems a little ridiculous.

Hi, I'm that idiot!

You make me laugh. I often run trails with mountain bikers and they all get off their bikes or slow to a crawl on the uphills. I just laugh as I pass them on foot. Hell, I beat a lot of these guys on the flat sections. Mountain biking is a sport for fat lazy people with Go Pro cameras and no athletic skill. I have yet to see any that look even remotely athletic. Don't be butt hurt it's just an observation.

Run Doctor wrote:

What's the point of a 2.5hr long run for the average or even above average runner especially a beginner?

Umm, building leg strength and aerobic capacity.

What's the point of running 100 miles a week if returns start to diminish after 60-70 miles a week?

its only a little over 26 mile wrote:

If you don't run longer than 2.5 hours, how are you going to figure out what you can and cannot eat and drink during a long race?

Maybe test your eating and drinking during your 2.5 hour run?

Not Fast but Furious wrote:

they all get off their bikes or slow to a crawl on the uphills. .

Thanks for proving my point. Most marathons, you can just get the bike rolling and coast the rest of the way.

only a little over 26 mile wrote:

Not Fast but Furious wrote:

they all get off their bikes or slow to a crawl on the uphills. .

Thanks for proving my point. Most marathons, you can just get the bike rolling and coast the rest of the way.

I'm assuming English is your second language or you are functionally illiterate. This explains nothing. There is no bike to "coast" on during a marathon. Mountain bikers coast along and then trudge up the hills. I take it you are a secret mountain biker and the shame is too much to bear.

After trying different approaches to marathon training cycles I eventually settled on running my longest runs strictly by time capped at 150 minutes and thought it worked at least as well as any other approach I tried. I feel that having a second fairly long run in the typical week helped me, that is go longish more often rather than going longer less frequently. This is consistent with Daniels and in the spirit of the Hansons' plans.

Not Fast but Furious wrote:

only a little over 26 mile wrote:

Thanks for proving my point. Most marathons, you can just get the bike rolling and coast the rest of the way.

I'm assuming English is your second language or you are functionally illiterate. This explains nothing. There is no bike to "coast" on during a marathon. Mountain bikers coast along and then trudge up the hills. I take it you are a secret mountain biker and the shame is too much to bear.

the only skill involved with running is being able to stand upright on two legs. something most 2 year olds can do.

Racing a marathon in an athletic time for the average person is like taking someone cut out for marathon racing and putting him in the squat rack with 700 pounds on the bar. The runner would have to take the collars off and remove the plates one at a time. So, I don't look at slower marathons as surviving, just doing something different than racing.

I wouldn't bother to train too much because I know it wouldn't help anymore then lifting weight would ever make me a person who can squat half of 700 pounds.

I'd rather just jog the marathon off training for something I am better suited for , like mountain biking.

I remember hearing geb say in some video that his longest training run was 3 or 4 hours (I'll try to find it)

"When training for the marathon, once a week do a long run of 2 hours or 20 miles, whichever happens first." - Frank Shorter

I built up so I could go 22mi/150min once a week AND another 18mi/2hr run sometimes done midweek. That's straight up old school Lydiard.

It takes YEARS to build up the durability to handle long runs of longer and longer length without it leaving you dead for days. It takes YEARS to build up to a point where those long runs are more than just jogging. I got to the point where I could hammer the last 3-5mi at or under marathon pace.

The benefit of long runs is more than just aerobic benefits. There is musculoskeletal durability as well as fuel efficiency.

Alan

asdfasdf wrote:

I remember hearing geb say in some video that his longest training run was 3 or 4 hours (I'll try to find it)

And Ed Whitlock had periods during which he ran 3 hours *every* day. He did alright for himself.

When I switched to Van Aaken training, I was about a 2:40 marathoner - maybe a little over that. VA recommended a heart rate of 120-130, which I held to. He also recommended that all marathoners run longer than a marathon in training. This meant, for me, at first, my 50k runs were nearly 5 hours. I did these weekly (40k at 120-130 = 4 hours! + 10k at race effort....) I got better quickly. So will most others, I suspect.

Instead of running over 150 minutes in one workout, can I, say, run workouts

2 days in a row, 100 minutes each?

mountainbiker and runner wrote:

Not Fast but Furious wrote:

I'm assuming English is your second language or you are functionally illiterate. This explains nothing. There is no bike to "coast" on during a marathon. Mountain bikers coast along and then trudge up the hills. I take it you are a secret mountain biker and the shame is too much to bear.

the only skill involved with running is being able to stand upright on two legs. something most 2 year olds can do.

Exactly! I'm not a mountain biker but I run road marathons,ultras, mile races, indoor marathons, trail races, etc. Some of the trails I run I couldn't imagine doing them on a mountain bike. Running on flat roads is one of the easiest forms of exercise.

ScriptedConnection wrote:

Instead of running over 150 minutes in one workout, can I, say, run workouts

2 days in a row, 100 minutes each?

You can do whatever you want.

What's the purpose of a 2hr or 2.5hr or even 3hr single run?

I used to run 90min runs daily. Then double with a 3-5mi run. So 13/5 or sometimes 10/5. A 22mi long run and a 15-18mi mid week run. A 5-10 single the day after a long run.

Alan

LLS training wrote:

Yes I read it in Jack Daniels Running Formula. If someone doesn't run at least 14-18 miles in training, how can they hope to do reasonable well in the marathon? Are long runs over 15 miles, let's say, purely to add confidence or is there not a physiological benefit to time on your feet? Such as teaching your body to use its fat reserves? Maybe 2.5 hours is sufficient towards that purpose?

Anyone who can't comfortably make it at least 18 miles in 2.5 hours shouldn't even bother with the marathon. Best to stick to distances where their suckiness doesn't close city streets for a full day.

HobsJog wrote:

2.5 hours isn't very long. I am just getting warmed up at this stage.

Plus this box of donuts isn't going to metabolize itself.

You must a tough cowboy, here on letsrun. 150min it's a LONG run for 99% of runners, kid.

dirtbag runner wrote:

Anyone who can't comfortably make it at least 18 miles in 2.5 hours shouldn't even bother with the marathon. Best to stick to distances where their suckiness doesn't close city streets for a full day.

I took 2:50 to run 15 miles but it was on a trail with 4,000 ft elevation gain. When I run a trail marathon they don't need to shut down any city streets regardless of how fast or slow I am.

Citizen Runner wrote:

After trying different approaches to marathon training cycles I eventually settled on running my longest runs strictly by time capped at 150 minutes and thought it worked at least as well as any other approach I tried. I feel that having a second fairly long run in the typical week helped me, that is go longish more often rather than going longer less frequently. This is consistent with Daniels and in the spirit of the Hansons' plans.

I agree with the above especially for beginners. I too was a beginner marathon runner last year. After 10 week off this spring due to injury I feel like a beginner again. OP asked about beginners. I completed my first marathon last year and finished in 5 minutes under my age group BQ time. I am in my 50's. This was with one 8 to 9 mile run in the middle of the week and a 8 to 13 mile run on the weekend. All my other runs were typically 5 miles. I improved my time by about 15 minutes at my 2nd marathon a couples months after the first one. I still did not follow a specific marathon plan when getting ready for Boston but did increase my weekly mileage. I found that one 120 minute (7:30 average pace) to 135 minute (7:50 average pace) run every week or two was hard enough on my body. My form started falling about near the end the 135 minute runs. I also tried to get in one 90 minute run a week. My easy days are 5 miles but I was still running those at 7:15 to 7:30 pace before my injury. A few times a month I would run 5 miles at an average pace of 7:05 when on a training run with a club. My injury was from driving so far to/from Boston and not from the race--lower back issue with associated sciatica. So 20+ mile long runs and/or 3 hours runs may work for some experienced marathon runners and make them faster but a beginner can have success with long runs that are much shorter.