First heard about this workout from Owen Anderson's book "Running Science." I have always preferred longer intervals (1000m-1600m) w/ equal work: rest ratio in my own training.
First heard about this workout from Owen Anderson's book "Running Science." I have always preferred longer intervals (1000m-1600m) w/ equal work: rest ratio in my own training.
I'd almost rather just do a race. You should be really good at finding your pace after doing that a few weeks.
Sara Palin wrote:
I'd almost rather just do a race. You should be really good at finding your pace after doing that a few weeks.
I know yeah - 15 second rest? What the hell?
Don't do this workout, race instead, or do 1k/800 repeats with equal rest for a pacing workout
If you do 10x800 and equal rest apparently you can run that for a marathon! I just race the workout and apparently I can run a 2:28 with a 16:44 5k PR! Try that.
Is equal rest 800m? Or the time it took to run that 800m? Are we jogging or standing during the rest?
Slugger wrote:
If you do 10x800 and equal rest apparently you can run that for a marathon! I just race the workout and apparently I can run a 2:28 with a 16:44 5k PR! Try that.
Your 5k PR is ridiculously soft compared to that workout.
The marathon doesn't even belong in this conversation. It's a completely different event.
12x400 is a good 5k workout. It's certainly not the only workout you'd want to do in order to run a good 5k -- you need longer intervals as well -- but it's a good workout to mix in. That being said, 15 seconds rest is insane. Bump the rest up to a minute, and drop the pace down to well under your 5k goal pace.
"In addition, Babineau and Leger found that lactate levels were significantly higher during the 400 workout compared with both the 800 and 1600 sessions. This is actually a good thing since high lactate levels are a potent stimulus for the improvement of lactate-threshold running velocity, a good predictor of 5K success"
from pgs 405-406
"Running Science"
by Owen Anderson
15 sec rest? How much do you think your heart rate is even going to be affected with that kind of rest by the 7th or 8th repeat. You might as well just race a 5k and get more out of that rather than some suicide paced workout that's going to equally burn you out with less to show for it. Now if you did 3 (4x400m w/15 sec rest) and 2/3 min rest between sets then you might be on too something. But that workout with such short rest i can't possibly see you not racing your workout OR you are well beyond your goal pace and your current 400m repeats are too soft.
but wait wrote:
"In addition, Babineau and Leger found that lactate levels were significantly higher during the 400 workout compared with both the 800 and 1600 sessions. This is actually a good thing since high lactate levels are a potent stimulus for the improvement of lactate-threshold running velocity, a good predictor of 5K success"
from pgs 405-406
"Running Science"
by Owen Anderson
Sounds like it came from a study, and for the reasons others have stated probably no coach ever used this workout with his athletes.
I was surprised too but the suggestion is coming from a highly respected author so I thought it was worth posting.
In the book he doesn't tout this primarily as a workout, it's mainly a 5K time predictor session, presented by Babineau and Leger. In their paper they discuss 3 sessions as being good predictors: 3x1600 1 min rest, 6x800 30sec rest, 12x400 15sec rest. Run as fast as possible while keeping intervals roughly consistent (400s pace was about 4% faster than 5K race pace). So obviously they just compared results from these with actual 5K times and found high correlation.
Anderson himself then goes on to say these would make good 5K workouts as well (he seems to favour 12x400 slightly). He acknowledges the paltry 15 sec rest and talks a bit about each one in a reasonable way. It's a pretty good book.
Sara Palin wrote:
I'd almost rather just do a race. You should be really good at finding your pace after doing that a few weeks.
True a race is the best indicator.
Like everything, this depends on your goals and where you are at in the season. If you're looking to gauge 5k fitness, this seems like a great workout as it is very much like a race. If you're looking to build fitness, I don't really see it as there is a high probability you will blow up and the workout will be a mess by the 3-4 400s.
I also agree with what others have said re: racing vs. doing this workout. Why not just race?
My favorite 400 repeat workout was 12 to 20 400s at 5K pace (~74 for me) with 100 meter job rest (~35 seconds). Was brutal once you got past say 14 reps.
I loved that workout, but always found that I personally got more bang for my buck out of longer intervals.
We used to do this workout in high school XC, respected the hell out of it. Every year a couple of kids would boot around number 9. Senior year I averaged 72.8s for the 400s and ran 15:37 for 5K, so nearly spot on at 4% difference
Not as a staple IMO. It depends on what one is trying to train. Suggest doing the repeats closer to or at VO2max pace and increasing the active recovery to ~ 40-45 seconds. If wanting to do them at 5k pace, change it to a critical velocity workout ... 1k's with 1 minute active recovery.
I think the point that Owen Anderson was trying to make and what peaked my interest in the first place was that a super short rest (15 seconds) is precisely beneficial because it has a "greater impact on lactate threshold" (pg 406). I'm not a physiologist but I take it that the build-up of lactate is greater and there is less time to clear it, no?
but wait wrote:
"In addition, Babineau and Leger found that lactate levels were significantly higher during the 400 workout compared with both the 800 and 1600 sessions. This is actually a good thing since high lactate levels are a potent stimulus for the improvement of lactate-threshold running velocity, a good predictor of 5K success"
from pgs 405-406
"Running Science"
by Owen Anderson
congratulation, you have found daniels tempo intervals. yawn.