So I have been arguing with a friend.
We have been talking about a marathoner that can do a 2:13 marathon. He does his general not workout runs at around 6 min pace.
I say he feels just like we feel at around 7:30 min pace, while my friend says 6 min pace can never feel easy and that they guy is training medium hard all the time (about 120 mpw)
So who is right? Can you run 6 min pace and still tell jokes all day long?
Your friend is an idiot
I was never elite, but a good runner. And I can tell you that we used to chat and tell jokes with my roommates on flat 6:00-6:15 pace runs of about 8-10 miles. Now, I run 7:30 pace for 4 miles and it feels like I'm finishing an all out 800 meters the entire time.
oooooh boy wrote:
Your friend is an idiot
Yea that's what I told him. Surely a pace a whole minute slower than his marathon pace must feel pedestrian
Effort-wise, it might even be easier depending on the fitness of said hobby-jogger (are we talking soccer moms or weekend warrior types?). But the speed would feel different.
A friend's husband said there was no reason for anyone to run their easy pace faster than 7:30. I e-mailed him a video of Rupp conducting an interview on a treadmill run at 6:00 pace and he told me he was running too fast.
Said husband ran about 26:30 for the 8k in college, but since he ran DI he of course knows everything.
Actually, 6-minute pace for your proposed marathoner is less than a minute per mile slower than his race pace, so that's really not all that easy. More like "steady."
Anyone who can talk and hold a conversation on a run...The very definition of a hobby-jogger no matter what pace ;)
First of all it depends on how you feel at around 7:30 pace.
Jack Daniels' recommended easy pace for a 2:13 marathoner (5:05 pace) is exactly one min/mile slower (6:05 pace). So yeah, 6 flat pace would feel easy for him.
I meant proportionally
So for example if said hobby-jogger ran his easy pace at 35% of his marathon pace, would it feel the same if the elite marathoner ran 35% of his marathon pace, even if that was 6 min miles?
I do know that 6:00 pace felt the same at 40 what 7:00 feels like now.
Flannigan and Cragg sure were talking a lot at marathon pace in the trials.. Most people would be gasping for air..
AdrianCh wrote:
I meant proportionally
So for example if said hobby-jogger ran his easy pace at 35% of his marathon pace, would it feel the same if the elite marathoner ran 35% of his marathon pace, even if that was 6 min miles?
35% of MP? Wow that's pretty fast.
Awhile back Renato Canova was talking about Caleb Ndiku and he said something to the affect that there was literally no benefit for him to run at slower than 4:00/km, not even for recovery. I think that is around 6:25/mi.
Considering Ndiku is a higher quality runner than your average 2:13 marathoner, I might infer that 6 min pace is easy/recovery for his level. For the 2:13 guy, it's probably "easy feeling" but is slightly faster than recovery.
I'll let you guys know how 6:00 pace feels when I'm a 2:13 marathoner
In college 6:45 felt like 7:45 does now. At the end of a season, 6:20 felt like 6:45.
If you can't talk at marathon pace, you are going too fast.If you are laughing and making elaborate hand gestures, too slow.
Almosrsbs wrote:
Flannigan and Cragg sure were talking a lot at marathon pace in the trials.. Most people would be gasping for air..
AdrianCh wrote:
I meant proportionally
So for example if said hobby-jogger ran his easy pace at 35% of his marathon pace, would it feel the same if the elite marathoner ran 35% of his marathon pace, even if that was 6 min miles?
I meant 35% slower
oh please wrote:
Awhile back Renato Canova was talking about Caleb Ndiku and he said something to the affect that there was literally no benefit for him to run at slower than 4:00/km, not even for recovery. I think that is around 6:25/mi.
Considering Ndiku is a higher quality runner than your average 2:13 marathoner, I might infer that 6 min pace is easy/recovery for his level. For the 2:13 guy, it's probably "easy feeling" but is slightly faster than recovery.
yes, the 2:13 guy still runs slower than 4:00/km on his recovery runs, around 4:20. But if it's not a recovery it's 3:40-3:50.
AdrianCh wrote:
So I have been arguing with a friend.
We have been talking about a marathoner that can do a 2:13 marathon. He does his general not workout runs at around 6 min pace.
I say he feels just like we feel at around 7:30 min pace, while my friend says 6 min pace can never feel easy and that they guy is training medium hard all the time (about 120 mpw)
So who is right? Can you run 6 min pace and still tell jokes all day long?
6:00 pace feels easy for a 2:13 guy. No doubt about it. That doesn't mean he does his easy runs at that pace. And yes, if they have an extensive enough joke repertoire, they can tell jokes all day long.
AdrianCh wrote:
I meant proportionally
So for example if said hobby-jogger ran his easy pace at 35% of his marathon pace, would it feel the same if the elite marathoner ran 35% of his marathon pace, even if that was 6 min miles?
Paces are not strictly proportional, but it's not very significant. Your easy pace gets slower compared to your race pace the faster you are.
Again you can use Jack Daniels to visualize this. His easy pace for a slow runner (VDOT 40) is about 116% of the marathon pace (8:46) while for a fast runner (VDOT 80) easy pace is about 120% of marathon pace (4:52).