2Q plan for shorter race help! Anyone have experience w/ 2 Q days per week vs 3?

Big Ben Help wrote:

Anybody have experience for basically doing 2Q per week for shorter races?

I know a lot of people love Daniels 2 Q plan, and it looks like Naz Elite does something similar with their marathon and half marathon plans.

I actually like NAZ elite's plan quite a bit.

Looks like in the heat of it it looks like this.

Week 1 - Specific Pace Workout - 10 x 20 s @ mile pace (smaller WO) - LR w/ Quality

Week 2 - Support Pace WO on speed side - Medium Long Run (smaller WO) - LR w/ quality

Cycle basically repeats progressing all workouts. Anybody use a modified 2Q system for shorter races and find success?

There needs to be more variety in the plan, or your progress will be limted.

Week 1 should be something like : 1st quality day: 4x400, 4x800, 2x1200 ( your last run of each repeat should be at your max, don't go at your max on the first repeat ) , 2nd Quality day : LR . ( Throw in 4 - 5 hill sprints on one of your easy days)

Week 2: 60 minute Tempo Progression Run ( 30 min easy, 30 min tempo pace - 1 min slower than race pace), 2nd Quality Day : LR ( throw in 4 - 5 hill sprints on 1 of your easy days)

And do 6-7 strides after every easy workout.

That's a 70/30 Aerobic/Anaerobic training plan, where you will be able to maximize your Endurance and Speed.

No quality during the LR though?

A Long run is a quality run, so you will be over doing it if you tack on anything else. You could even get injured.

Long run builds up the heart so that you can run long distances with a more stable heart rate, and it will make your races feel a lot easier....It's simply a quality endurance run.

I generally agree that there isn't much of a need to do intense work during a long run when prepping for races at the shorter distances.

I would make a few exceptions though:

- I really think that the tempo/long run combo goes a really long way in preparing you for the marathon (nor really an exception to my point, but maybe an exception to Scorpionrunner's point);

- If you have a half marathon or marathon on the relatively near term horizon, it might be nice to combine a tempo effort and long run from time to time just to be better prepared for your subsequent training cycle. I have one of the guys I am coaching doing that this weekend even though he is training for a 10k in August, because I want him to have some preparation for what we will do in his training cycle for his December marathon. It will be his first real marathon training cycle, but he wants to get an OT time, so I like the idea of him having at least some familiarity with, and confidence in, what he will be doing in that cycle.

- if you are otherwise pressed for time during the week and cannot get a second quality day in midweek, working in some tempo paced miles as part of your long run can be an efficient way to manage a challenging schedule. While there is an increased risk of injury on the one hand, on the other hand, there is a corresponding decrease in risk as a result of having only 2 quality days that week instead of 3 (assuming that you view the long run as a quality day, which I do).

Smoove, do you run your long run days easy?

I am toying with adding fast finish 5k (Marathon Pace) every other week while keeping 2 workouts per week, but am wondering about the effects on recovery.

I run my long runs easy, except for a half a dozen or so of workouts during my marathon training cycles when I combine tempo workouts with my long run in line with Daniels' plan from the 2nd edition of his book.

Other than that, every non-workout day is run at an easy, conversational pace (some days that is 6:30s, some days it is 7:20s, and can be anywhere in between).

Smoove wrote:

- if you are otherwise pressed for time during the week and cannot get a second quality day in midweek, working in some tempo paced miles as part of your long run can be an efficient way to manage a challenging schedule. While there is an increased risk of injury on the one hand, on the other hand, there is a corresponding decrease in risk as a result of having only 2 quality days that week instead of 3 (assuming that you view the long run as a quality day, which I do).

This is my biggest reason for throwing in some threshold pace into the long run during half-marathon training. I also like a suggestion I've heard (is it from Pfitzinger?) to do quality every other long run.

During weeks I do a "quality" long run, I like to do something short and fast and low-stress for that 2nd mid-week run. The week might look like this:

S: 18m (4-6 mi @ tempo)

M: Easy

T: 10x200m hills or track

W: Easy

Th: Easy

Fri: Workout

S: Easy

Daniels has taught me to really value those short, fast intervals.

I've also been toying with a 14 day cycle that looks something like this.

Week 1

Tuesday - Speed

Friday - Tempo

Sunday - Long w/ Fast Finish

Week 2

Wednesday - Speed

Saturday - Long Tempo-ish Effort / Faster Long Run