5K and 10K mileage

Don't go for 10k.

You had better concentrate to your 5k, because you will destroy your body and condition by running a 10k race later. Saying things and seeing numbers are completely different compared if you really run those kilometres. I've already said in my initial post that running a 5k and 10k is not all the same. You need more mileage if you really want to shoot a good 10k. So I think the perception of 10k time = 2x5km time + 40-60seconds, is wrong. E.g: if you run a 20min 5k today, dont dream of running a 41min/42min 10k next week, NO WAY. You would only achieve that maybe next year, like most runners do all the time, and you get those times by adding your mileage and getting stronger day by day.

I ran 14:43 5km, and if you see numbers, I am supposed to be able to run like Radcliffe in the marathon (sub 2:20), but hell NO, I ran 2:34.

Actually, I think 70mpw is already enough to run a decent 5k race. You know Hicham the WR holder mid-dist guy? He trains like 100mpw and some even said he trains like a marathoner, in which I believe he does.

sevatonic@hotmail.com

bortonhills@hotmail.com

I'm always interested in this kind of topic.

-^*karangasem*^-

Priscilla,

I think the answer depends on how talented, motivated and serious/competitive you are. What kind of times have you run, what are your goals, and how much mileage have you been running? There are some really good coaches and knowledgeable veterans who visit this board who could give you some specific advice with maybe a bit more information.

thanks for the reply. Yes, I think those prediction charts can be deceptive. I have an easier time hitting the prediction charts if it compares shorter races. The marathon is unpredictable!

I ran a 3:25 in the marathon and finally decided if I wanted to improve I needed to drastically increase my mileage.

I decided to switch to shorter races. I couldn't sustain the 70 mpw and keep up with my other duties.

I ran a 3:25 marathon off of poor training last year. I was toying with the idea of dropping 10-15 minutes, but then decided to switch to shorter races.

I ran a 19:40 5K last fall with minimal training (i.e. about a month of 4x400s). I'd like to drop below 19:00. When I ran the 19:40 I was running really low mileage (30-40 mpw). I was advised at the time to keep my mileage low and take more rest days.

My 10K PR is 42:42. I'd like to hit sub 4l:00 for the 10K. I don't know if that's too ambitious, but I'm fairly new to running. My twins will be 2 next month. I started running after having them and ran my first marathon (second was Boston last year) seven months after giving birth to them. I ran a 3:28 on low mileage (one week I hit 50). Obviously, I died at the end of the marathon.

any ideas would be helpful. I am competitive and would like to be in the top 5 for my age group in my state for the 5K, 8K, and 10K and maybe hope to make the top 15 overall in the state for these races.

There's my life story in a nutshell. Thanks for the input.

A lot depends on your approach. You can run a decent 5k on lower mileage (<50 mpw), if you train like a miler. And you can run a decent 10k if you train like a 5k runner, as long as you incorporate some endurance training for several months (long run every week or two, steady states, and long intervals). Bottom line, 50-70 mpw is a decent mileage range for a recreational runner for who wants to run 5 and 10k. Finally, run some 3000 m races leading up to your peak races. And if you make 5k your goal, then a 1500/mile is a good preparation.

One of the most important aspects of racing is beleiving in yourself.Ina span of 6 months I was able to reduce my 10pr from 40 to 34 without much change in training. Except for adding a weekly 16 miler. I told a fellow runner in March I would run under 35 and he said I had no idea how fast that was. But I saw the dorks that were running hat time and knew I was a better athlete than most of them. I believed in my training and myself. I stuck to a program and did not vary my training. Set a goal race.Go out and run fast. You owe it to yourself because of all the hard work you will have done to achieve your goal.

Sev,

On this board, as it's been seen, mileage is king and I won't argue that. I guess my question is related to the megamileage runners, such as the Japanese, and ultra runners in general. If mileage=strength=speed, why aren't there more ultra people running faster marathons? Why aren't the Japanese running 26:45 for 10K? If Joe Five-K is doing 120 MPW and Jack One-Hundred-K is doing 130 miles a week, what makes their racing abilities so different? Shouldn't someone like an Ann Trason be able to pop a 31:00 10K if she added the speedwork?

skylon wrote:

Sev,

On this board, as it's been seen, mileage is king and I won't argue that. I guess my question is related to the megamileage runners, such as the Japanese, and ultra runners in general. If mileage=strength=speed, why aren't there more ultra people running faster marathons? Why aren't the Japanese running 26:45 for 10K? If Joe Five-K is doing 120 MPW and Jack One-Hundred-K is doing 130 miles a week, what makes their racing abilities so different? Shouldn't someone like an Ann Trason be able to pop a 31:00 10K if she added the speedwork?

Maybe there simply not capable of it.

FatOldGuy, that is inspirational stuff for sure. can you give me a little more infor on how you dropped your time that quickly?? Like, MPW, progression, any speedwork, etc...or maybe just email me your whole training log from that 6 month period!! I am in 40 min shape now but would have to pinch myself to make sure I wasn't dreaming if I came CLOSE to 34. please write if you can.

Being a CURRENT fat old guy who WAS semi-fast in the late eighties, I'm trying to make it back a bit too. Would love to hear how F-O-G did it...I'm back up to 30 mpw with some aerobic cross training, just building a base and watching the pound SLOWLY come off. Words for the masses, fatoldguy?

FatOldGuy, count me among your admirers, too! I'd been hoping for a 6 minute career drop in the 10K, let alone in six months. I also would greatly appreciate tips on getting faster over a training cycle, especially while avoiding injuries. Besides adding the longer run, what were some other key factes of your training? Thanks for any advice.

Goodness - the sarcasm is oozing out of these posts.

I also dropped from about 40 to 34 and change, but did so over about eight years. In my case, I give the credit to a steady build up of base mileage and constant impovement to my running economy. I'm not built like the typical runner (a bit too stocky), but for my height I've got a long, fluid stride (or so my wife tells me). I can see someone dropping those minutes like FOG says if they were starting cold at 40 and had actual talent to work with (unlike my case, where it was just the hard work) and trained hard.

Although Priscilla probably wants to hear from the pros, I'll throw in my two cents anyway.

I don't think you need to shoot for a specific weekly target (like 70 mpw) for the 5k and 10k, as long as you get a good balance of long/slow, fast and hard workouts and recovery days, and have fun and enjoy yourself while you're at it. But look back at some of the training threads (search on "Hadd," "Lydiard" or even "JK") and take what you like out of those debates.

G'Luck

Thanks for sharing your experience.

It was have felt terrific when you reached that feat of dropping 6 minutes off of your 10K time.

Pete and FatOldGuy, I wasn't intending to be sarcastic. Really! To me right now, a 40 to 34 minute 10K drop looks huge, and I'd love to knock that much off of my 10K time, and maybe I will, over time like you say. In all honesty I'm impressed with FatOldGuy's improvement, and even if it may turn out to be impossible for me I really appreciate advice from folks like you and FOG who HAVE improved a great deal with their training.

FOGFan,

sorry, maybe I read too quickly - looking back maybe none of the three posts were actually sarcastic.

Anyway, in my case, for what it's worth, I ran a couple of 10k's in Bermuda (roughly 39:40 and 40:15), and a couple of marathons in Canada (3:35 and 3:15'ish) in 1992. I wasn't running a lot of miles in those days (probably average of 15-20 mpw), so the times probably respresented my "untrained" base fitness. I didn't run another race until 99 (marathon 3:01), and then hit the local racing scene a bit more seriously the following year (a handful of 10k's between 35 and 36, with a variety of other races). I hit my PB last spring, at 34:40. Subsequently I also dropped my marathon time to about 2:45 this last fall. I hope to shave time (seconds, not minutes except for the marathon) off all my PBs again this year.

My training between 92 and last year (with a pronounced work-induced break from 96 to 98) consisted of 20 to 25 mpw of hard running, increasing to 30, 40, and then over 60 last year pre-marathon. I rarely varied the length or pace of my daily runs, and ran as hard as I felt I could on that day (normally 6:00 to 6:20 pace). No long-slow days, no hill work, no intervals, etc. I've started to wise up, particularly now that I'm getting older and more injury-prone, so I've started incorporating long slow runs, plus where I live you can't avoid the hills, and I take rest days. I don't recommend this approach (ie all hard running) to anyone else, but it seemed to work for me in my youth.

No sarcasm was intended at all in my post above. (There is so much sarcasm on this board, you can't even compliment someone!!) I am most certainly interested in hearing about FOG's training over the six months he dropped his time by that much and it's because I have no idea how to do that myself. Still hoping he responds with a nice breakdown of what it took to do that.

Thanks, Pete, for the training details, especially the modifications to avoid injuries. I'm not exactly a youngster myself!

If you want to be the best that you can be at distance running then generally I would someone to run as often as they can - taking into account their current lifestyle, family, work, etc. An alternative to worry about mileage is simply to look at the training pattern. e.g. You need to get a balance of steady running, long slow running and shorter faster running. Something alon these lines. Fill in the numbers (miles) to suit yourself.

Day 1: Steady run

Day 2: Long intervals

Day 3: Steady run

Day 4: Short intervals

Day 5: Rest or easy run

Day 6: Race or short fast run

Day 7: Long slow run

'Low' mileage example:

Day 1: 5 miles

Day 2: 8 x 1000m @ 10k pace (400m jog recovery) 1 mile jog warm up & warm down

Day 3: 7 miles

Day 4: 12 x 400m @ 5k pace (200m jog recovery) 1 mile jog warm up & warm down

Day 5: Rest

Day 6: 1mile jog / 3 miles fast / 1 mile jog

Day 7: 12 miles

= 41 mpw

'High' Mileage example:

Day 1: 6 miles

Day 2: 10 x 1000m @ 10k pace (400m jog recovery) 2 mile jog warm up & warm down

Day 3: 10 miles

Day 4: 8 x 600m @ 5k pace (200m jog recovery) 2 mile jog warm up & warm down

Day 5: 6 miles

Day 6: 2 mile jog / 4 miles fast / 2 mile jog

Day 7: 17 miles

= 64 mpw

plus morning jog of 4 miles to days 1, 3, 4 & 6

= 80 mpw

I've run pretty much that pattern for 18 years and got to 15:15 5k (1995) and 31:46 for 10k (1993) - which I am fairly happy with. Back in those days I used to average 65-70 mpw I guess. Now I run less (family and work committments - and old age!) about 40 mpw, but following the same pattern and I can still knock out a 35:30 10k.

I was not a fat old guy then. It was early eighties and at the time I decided to be serious I weighed 160lbs. At pr weight I was 140lbs. I basically made the committement to run 70 m/wk. progresssion was march pr 40 min 10k/4:03 marathon. I found a group to run with Saturdays that did 16. The first run I could go 10 and then I had to rest for 15 minutes at mile 5. Then on Sunday I would race tired a 10k. In June I did The San Fransico Marathon in Golden Gate Park,2:56. All my training partners were stunned; I was a beginner. Same schedule till Sept/Oct Raced a lot in between. And all my races were with no tapering. Most prs even after a long run. I thought if I was racing marathons how else better to simulate the last 10k of a marathon but to race it after a hard long run. The 16 milers were now taking me about 1:40. i ran a 34:08 on Sunday and followed that with ~ a 2:44 at St. George the next sat. Monday was a 10 miler. Lots of HARD work. I would race cars cruising along the beach. Lots of hills and farklet almost daily. It has been a while this year at 50 I have decided to run 38 for 10k. The training will be the same. Believe.