I think rojo needs to realize that his professional credibility was never there and plummeted even farther after this performance.
I think rojo needs to realize that his professional credibility was never there and plummeted even farther after this performance.
Who?
Um wha? wrote:
I think rojo needs to realize that his professional credibility was never there and plummeted even farther after this performance.
Exactly. I think a similar effort in Berlin might yield close to same results, mostly thanks to potentially even better weather by 5F or so, plus the added benefit of a race instead of a time trial. It would take money, but it shouldn't be totally out of the realm to get a team of guys to pace as long as they can at 60/half pace and see where it goes.
We just had a guy time trial a 2:00:25. Ok, call it 2:01:40 or which ever "real worth" you'd like to call it. Add in an actual race and similar pacing, you might be cracking 2:01.
Kind of reminds me of the 2008 Olympic marathon where for 2/3rds the race the announcers were saying Wanjiru is crazy and no way this can work and this isn't how you run a championship race. But then it does work and he does win and then all of a sudden it took 205 to win a major, then 204, now 203.
LetsRun.com wrote:
Healthy debate is good for the sport.
What do you think?
have nobody considered the factor that maybe it was not the best day for Kipchoge?
We can't forget that they are human.
Probably he wasn't in the shape of his best London marathon in which he made 2h 03' in absolute control
Seems like they mostly proved the concept (unless there are significant effect from the lead car), so now they just need rabbits that can stay in the race for 20+ miles
LetsRun.com wrote:
Healthy debate is good for the sport.
Four years ago, LetsRun.com's Robert Johnson said we were nowhere close to a sub-2 marathon and he's not backing down after Kipchoge's amazing 2:00:25 run:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2017/05/eliud-kipchoges-20025-monumental-step-forward-marathoning-no-not-still-20-years-away-legitimate-sub-2-marathon/In 1991, when the marathon world record was just 2:06:50, Dr. Michael Joyner famously predicted a human could run a marathon in 1:57:58. He shares his thoughts on Kipchoge's run here.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2017/05/guest-column-dr-michael-joyner-kipchoges-run-might-might-not-happen-next/What do you think?
Professional cred gone. Professional temper tantrum and continued salt over the whole ordeal is impressive however.
Couldn't disagree with you more. This will happen within 5 years. If I was a RD for Berlin or Chicago I'd find a sponsor to pay a $5m bonus for going under 2 hours. That's how it will happen.
Healthy debate is good for the sport.
Four years ago, LetsRun's Robert Johnson said we were nowhere close to a sub-2 marathon and he's not backing down after Kipchoge's amazing 2:00:25 run:
In 1991, when the marathon world record was just 2:06:50, Dr. Michael Joyner famously predicted a human could run a marathon in 1:57:58. He shares his thoughts on Kipchoge's run here.
What do you think?
oh please wrote:
Exactly. I think a similar effort in Berlin might yield close to same results, mostly thanks to potentially even better weather by 5F or so, plus the added benefit of a race instead of a time trial. It would take money, but it shouldn't be totally out of the realm to get a team of guys to pace as long as they can at 60/half pace and see where it goes..
So do you want to bet on Berlin or not?
The idea that he'd run better in a "race with competition" is laughable. I saw some variant of that theory being proposed before the race. A woman on facebook on Sage Canaday's page was saying he wouldn't do as well because there was no "crowd." Go read "Scorecasting" people. Crowd doesn't have anything to do with it.
Does anyone remember London in 2016? The guys slowed down as they were worried about racing each other and cost themselves the world record.
The idea that a guy needs "a real race" to be motivated is laughable. I can only imagine the financial incentive he was going to get from Nike if he had broken 2:00:00. David Monti estimated he'd get between $1 and $1.5 million if he'd done it.
So you really think Kipchoge was racing at like 95% but then decided, "You know what I won't give it 100% because it's not a real race?" That's laughable. The idea that guys can simply try harder is laughable. If it's just a matter of willpower why wasn't everyone on this board a pro runner?
If a real race and crowd were factors, then a bunch of collegians wouldn't have run 3:37 in front of 50 people at Swarthmore last night.
You often run faster in time trials/practice than you do in a real race.
Seeing as how we've only seen one minute slashed off of the world record from 9 years ago, I think it's safe to say we won't see an additional 3 minutes come off anytime soon.
Here's a subtle rebuttal of your Sub2 position:
If he'd run 2:06, sure, get on with the chest thumping opprobrium of Kipchoge and his evil corporate backer, but he fricken ran 2:00:25; he almost did it mate! A human being is therefore ballpark; he's incredible, but most likely 40. When the next Bekele comes along, he will head to the marathon young.
Think also about the mix of talented Africans, desperate poverty in these countries and Svengali European agents who see opportunity in every nook and cranny of rural Africa. T&F is dirty and corrupt, but compared to the 'real world' there's nothing extraordinary about this. We just become incensed when our little source of escapism becomes polluted with the harsh realities of real life.
Think about the perceived need for the world at large to breaks barriers.
Our sport's entire existence (and I don't think it is good, or right) depends on this kind of barrier being broken. That article on T&F on your homepage unfortunately reflects the real perception of our sport by mainstream America - if you don't believe me go ask a sorority house who Matt Centrowitz is.
I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, but your argument as to why it would take 20 years has more holes in it than the Russian anti doping program. Who would have predicted the 5/10 WRs dropping to 12:44 and 26:43 in 1992, after 15 years of almost complete stagnation.
Whether it's a new drug, technology, exploitation of Monza like setups, reluctant rule bending of governing bodies to appease corporate drivers or - and we can dare to dream, right? - the next Bekele like super talent going to the marathon young, it will happen well before 20 years; society just won't wait that long, these kids need success yesterday!
LetsRun.com wrote:
Healthy debate is good for the sport.
What do you think?
Think that Rojo lost all form of credibility.
Clam Evans wrote:
...so now they just need rabbits that can stay in the race for 20+ miles
They need rabbits the size of a Tesla.
Not quite, rojo. Most races pay the winner regardless of finishing time. If the "race" is set up to reward only the first under-2:00, then the "sit-and-kick" strategy is undermined considerably, as no sub-2, not payout.
If it came down to 800m to go and both runners are right at 2:00 pace or slightly over, chances are the presence of a competitor will milk the last bit of adrenaline needed to go under. They will know they have to follow the pace until then or no $$. So it will be the best of both worlds in a sense.
ClonedDuck wrote:
LetsRun.com wrote:Healthy debate is good for the sport.
What do you think?
Think that Rojo lost all form of credibility.
I am not sure the level of Rojo's credibility but he has not lost any here. Rojo might not be the classiest guy but then again he is kind of a troll so what do you expect?
Rojo is willing to wager with you clowns so this enhances his credibility. I think Rojo's position is MUCH stronger than maybe he does. I would wager $1000 that Kipchoge NEVER breaks the world record in the marathon.
You're wrong
the real deal wrote:
Seeing as how we've only seen one minute slashed off of the world record from 9 years ago, I think it's safe to say we won't see an additional 3 minutes come off anytime soon.
the real deal wrote:
Seeing as how we've only seen one minute slashed off of the world record from 9 years ago, I think it's safe to say we won't see an additional 3 minutes come off anytime soon.
I agree. The WR has been fairly stagnant for the last decade.
Unless some of the numbnutz think the advertising unsactioned side show taught them something.
I'll take under at 7.5 years.
I consider Kipchoge's time as legit as a track record. It will be done in the next couple of years.
Phil me In wrote:
the real deal wrote:Seeing as how we've only seen one minute slashed off of the world record from 9 years ago, I think it's safe to say we won't see an additional 3 minutes come off anytime soon.
I agree. The WR has been fairly stagnant for the last decade.
Unless some of the numbnutz think the advertising unsactioned side show taught them something.
It taught them that the sideshow was more interesting than your run of the mill marathon.
No matter how you dress it up, Boston, New York, London, et al, are boring to the less than rabid, drooling running fanatics.
Someone will put up a boatload of money, and they will get all the top guys to go for it.
You need pacers?
Run a 4 lap circuit, and have some pacers just jog along so the leaders catch them from behind(they are still running the whole course).
Or, tell the lead car/motorcycle that they have in every race what the pace should be.
Under 2 in the next 3 years.