I want to run 4:20's for the mile by this time next year....

o yeah and im in high school if anyone wishes to know

yea i am a freshman in high school and i have about the same pr's or a lil better but i am looking to run in the 17's next XC season. What kind of summer training should i do?

don't steal the thread you little brat

and for your information you should aim for the 16's not 17's if your mile and 2 mile PR's are better than mine

" also need to work on my speed as i can barely break 60 for the 400m"

Speed, smeed. I was a :57 quarter guy and ran 4:28. You need endurance, you need mileage. Should have been doing 70 mile weeks after your freshman year. Get it up to 70-80 as soon as you can.

I'm sorry but buy you need to serious look at a more realistic goal. Or make up your mind and start runnning before and after school until you can handle 100 mpw. That is about the only chance you have of making that kind of improvement.

Texan boy, ignore everything this idiot sucka busta says.

He lives to tear down the ambitions of others.

Keep training and time will come.

Yonas Zengaw,You are the idiot. I gave that kid sound advice. A 4:20 is an unrealistic goal at this point unless he puts in some serious mileage to improve his aerobic efficiency. That is the only way he will be strong enough to do that in just a year. You have to tell these kids how it is or it will set them up for a much worse disappointment. Now go back to being a fool Yonas

I would use this summer to really put in some miles. Get your mileage up as high as your body will allow. Lots of EASY aerobic running. Here's a tip: if you back off the intensity of your daily training pace you can up your mileage quicker. Like most American distance runners, you've probaly never built a true base. This means doing the vast majority of your runs at a pace that feels ridiculously easy. Wearing a heartrate monitor can teach you what really easy truly is. One day a week I'd throw in a lactate threshold/uptempo/quality aerobic, whatever you want to call it, run. Don't set the day for this aside ahead of time. Do this run spontaneously after you've warmed up and then gradually pick up the pace. Settle into a nice rythmn and stay in control. Run at this cruising effort for 30-60 minutes and follow with a cool down. In addition to this "tempo" run, I'd use one day a week to do what I remember coach Roy Benson desribe as "aerobic speedwork." You're going to have to experiment with this one. The best way I can desrcibe this workout is as an alactic fartlek run. The idea is to avoid tying up and keep this comfortable. I'll stride and jog for 5 miles or so worth of repeats. They start out slowly enough, but when I'm really warmed up, they're done near 400 meter speed. The jog in between must allow for a full recovery. If you do this work out consistently enough in addition to striders after pretty much EVERY run, you will not lose speed. The only other thing I would suggest is a long run of at least 90 minutes(preferably more) once a week and to integrate doubles a few days a week into your routine. Listen to your body and rest when you feel you need it. Don't follow your training program as if it's set in stone by becoming obsessed with numbers.

So in a nutshell: Lots of EASY running including one long run, one aerobic speedwork/farlek run, one high-end aerobic run and lots of striders. That's it. Simple. I think your goal is reasonable if you take care of your base first and worry about mile-specific training when the time is appropriate. Good luck.

sucka busta wrote:

I'm sorry but buy you need to serious look at a more realistic goal. Or make up your mind and start runnning before and after school until you can handle 100 mpw. That is about the only chance you have of making that kind of improvement.

To be honest, I kind of agree with sucka busta. According to the mileage you've run so far, it's possible that you just can't do it. I know a guy who trained his ass off in HS just to break 5. He had a good coach, was running a lot of miles, and generally doing all the right stuff, but he only broke 5 in his last race in HS. He just wasn't going to go much faster than 5. You've gotta play the hand dealt to you.

I'd say turn your focus to longer races, but if you wanna go "4:20 or bust", I'd say focus on speed. It's gonna be tough to run 4 65's in a row if you can barely break 60 for one. BS in Ex Sci says he ran a 57 and a 4:28, which is about right. But he also says that that shos you don't need speed. 57 isn't 60. He had enough speed to run a 4:28. Right now you don't and you'll need to work on your speed if you are serious about it.

Texan boy

what's your email?

I can help you

Judging by your times i'd say you have more potential in the 2 mile. If you really want to get to 4:20 just work really hard, it's possible. I know a guy who ran around 5 flat his sophomore year then ran a 4:37 just the next year. 4:4x to 4:20 is definately a harder jump but it's possible.

I am going to suggest something taboo around this board...hit the weights this summer while running the miles you state. Yes, weights. Squat what you can for reps, not pounds, try to get 15-20 reps for 4-5 sets in. Leg press. Single leg alternating presses. Again 15-20 reps; 4-5 sets. Straight leg Dead lifts. You heard me right, dead lifts. No this is not a weightlitfer/bodybuilder only lift. It will put serious strength into your hammy's as well as your lower back (you know the core exercises). Shoot for at least once a week, if you can... once a week one week, twice the next, then back to once a week, then twice, etc. At the end of summer...surprise! New PR's. Trust me.

dude, you dont need to do 70-80 miles a week, just take it to 55-60, and make sure you dont miss a day, and do loads of strides, longer ones too, 200's and 400's pretty regularly, even in the off season, nothing that's like a workout but just to keep the gears lubed.

i think people are underestimating my devotion...

i have run through some tough conditions including 800 repeats at 3:30 (yes 3:30) in 1.5 feet of snow during a blizzard. I made a goal last spring to become the #1 varsity runner in my xc high school team considering i wasnt even in the top 7 the xc season last year. I accomplished that..

Now I did say i can barely break 60 for the 400 buts thats because i have never seriously ran it.. Im taking a realistic position and saying i can probably run 57-58..

4:20 was never my goal.. i am a realistic person, and i know my limits, i wanted to get into the 4:20's (ex) 4:29.99.

I feel that i can do it but if im gonna run 4:20's im guessing im gonna have to break 2:00 for the 800, considering i cannot raise my aerobic capacity that fast. Anaerobic threshold can be raised in just a few months as i have heard.

I feel that 70-75 miles would be suffecient, but i will be running these miles for about 6-7 weeks as ooposed to building up to the 80'sand 90's.

I want to get acclimated to running the 70-75mpw and then working the miles, doing workouts etc because I need to raise my fitness/ability relatively fast as next year is my senior year

MorrisonDr. please leave your email adress

also i am very serious about cross country as well and i would like to get into the low 16's as well so please take this into consideration..

my 5k pr is at 17:10

You got to run more miles. Trust me. Get up to where you are running 70-90 miles a week every week. Get a long run of 12-15 miles on Sunday. Tempo runs helped me out a lot too.

You are thinking about it too much. Get out there and run. It's that simple.

sucka busta wrote:

Yonas Zengaw,You are the idiot. I gave that kid sound advice. A 4:20 is an unrealistic goal at this point unless he puts in some serious mileage to improve his aerobic efficiency. That is the only way he will be strong enough to do that in just a year. You have to tell these kids how it is or it will set them up for a much worse disappointment. Now go back to being a fool Yonas

Thanks for proving my point. You are indeed a "sucker" for your foolish ignorance of competitive running. Have a nice life. Let us all know where you've gone in 10 years making a career out of diminishing other people's goals.

Work hard over the summer - Summer of Malmo comes to mind.

To paraphrase George Costanza:" It's going to be the 'Summer of malmo!'"

Q: What is this so-called "Summer of malmo"?

A: It's a foolproof, no-nonsense, 100 percent guaranteed program that will help runners of all abilities to improve their fitness over the summer WITHOUT the attendant physical or mental fatigue. "Summer of malmo" revolves around a relaxed commitment from a group to meet just twice a week for an organized workout. One tempo run and one longer interval session. JUST TWICE A WEEK IS ALL I ASK. Emphasis on RELAXED and emphasis on COMMITMENT. Make this a social event.

Q: Who is it for?

A: Everyone (almost). Anyone that isn't reaching their full potential, and you know who you are. It's for runners that have been THINKING about doing doubles and haven't yet started. It's for you runners that have been THINKING of jacking up the mileage and haven't yet started. It's for college runners. High school runners. Boys, girls, men and women. Anyone that wants to make the leap for next year's cross country season. Different skill levels? No problem. Fitness levels? Coming off an injury and are way behind? It's OK, I've thought of it all. This foolproof SCHEDULE is all things to all runners!

Q: Who isn't it for?

A: Any runner who has immediate racing goals. This "program" is a springboard for the cross country season. An easy way to prepare oneself for the real training to be done in the fall.

Q: I thought that you don't believe in writing SCHEDULES?

A: I don't, these workouts are only examples, you can customize it any way that you want - EXCEPT FOR THE INTENSITY LEVEL. That part must always be relaxed and within yourself. Otherwise it is not a genuine Summer of malmo. The product and your warranty will be null and void.

Q: How do I start?

A: First up, call all of your running friends, crew, homeys, goodbuddies, gangmates, posse, stable, team or pals and commit to meet twice a week for a workout. Get together with runners from other teams in your town or city. Make it a social event. Meet for pizza or a BBQ afterwards. Start now. Also, start running twice a day now. In the words of John Ngugi, "Don't waste good time." Do doubles four, five or six days a week. Can't make it four days? Then do three. For most of you grasshoppers doubles are the missing element that is keeping you from reaching your full potential, so start 'em now.

Q: What if I get tired?

A: You will get tired, I can guarantee it. IT WILL PASS. Trust me.

Q: How many miles should I run?

A: I don't know, but more than you've been doing. The time is now to find out exactly where your personal sweet spot is. The main goals are to (1) increase the mileage and (2) to run doubles. Some of you may be running over 100 miles per week for the first time, other still think that running 70 mpw is a lot. It's OK, this PROGRAM will accommodate everyone.

Q: My friends are going to meet twice a week, where?

A: On the track. Why? Because the PROGRAM is designed to accommodate everyone with one simple formula. You'll see soon enough.

Q: What workouts do we do?

A: Once a week meet for a tempo run on the track of four to six miles. The other workout is four to six by 1200m to 2000m with one lap jog, OR 16 to 24 by 150m to 300m with FULL RECOVERY - that's a really slow jog. Walk if you have to. You determine what you want to do; these are just recommendations.

Q: How fast?

A: Whatever is comfortable for the group. Not once should you come off of the workout with your eyes rolling back in your heads, that's not the point. Basically it's threshold training, but don't tell anyone I said so - I've got an image to uphold.

Let's say on your tempo run you've got four of you who are comfortable with 5:20 pace for five miles but you have two others who would have to struggle with that pace and another two who just simply are not in shape. No problem. The middle two could probably run for two miles, rest a lap and when the group comes around again, jump back in. Just as long as it's still a tempo run for them. Both the leaders and the runners jumping back in will benefit from each other. Those two out-of-shape runners? Jump in at the back of the pack for a lap or two, rest a lap, jump back in for another lap or two, and repeat until the run is over.

Each week they'll be able to run more and more, and before you know it, they'll be right up there with the lead group. Same thing with the long interval session.

The beauty of the "Summer of malmo" is that no matter what kind of shape you or your comrades-in-sweat are in you can all train together and benefit from each other.

Q: What should my heart rate be?

A: I don't have a clue. I'm trying to get you to "feel" Kung Fu, not "think" it.

Q: What about those 200s? Why are we doing speed work now?

A: The only way to run fast is to, well, run fast. The time to start is now. Let's say the group is running 200s. Just go out and run them. FULL RECOVERY. The whole point is to train the neuromuscular system, to concentrate on the mechanics of running - you know it: forward lean, arm carriage, knees up and out, heels clipping your butt, stride length and turnover. I've always been amazed at the number of runners that think that they can "get speed" during the last three weeks of the season. It doesn't work that way.

Q: So what you're saying is a five mile tempo run once a week AND, lets say, five by one mile, OR 16 x 200 for the other workout?

A: That's exactly what I'm saying. All of these workouts should be within yourself. Remember this isn't the end-all training program, it will prepare your for the real work to begin in September.

Q: No hill repeats?

A: Nope. If you want to, go ahead, but the objective here is to get the most during the summer with the least amount of effort - that's PHYSICAL and MENTAL. By meeting twice a week and running in a group the mental effort should be at a minimum. REMEMBER, NO RACING IN THE F*****' WORKOUT!!! There will be plenty of time for that later.

Q: What about the other days?

A: Keep those doubles going. If you're out on a run and are feeling good you just might rip into another tempo run. My favorite: "run to the barn", that is, the last two to three miles of an easy run just let it rip. Go into orbit. Some of you geeks might even call it AT training.

Q: I live in the country and don't have anyone else to run with.

A: That's OK. Just do your tempo runs on the roads. For your long repeats you might just go out on the roads for an hour or so of 5:00 easy/5:00 hard (on of my favorite workouts). Still the same principles apply to you. All of these workouts should be run within yourself.

Q: I want to run some summer road races, can I?

A: Sure, why not? As long as these races are not the end-all. You've got bigger fish to fry in the fall so take it easy. Who are you trying to impress in the summer anyway? Not me, baby. Save it for later. If you've got the discipline then run your tempo run during these races. Alright, I know that everyone has one race that they'd like to concentrate on, go ahead and go for it. Just don't make it a weekly habit.

Q: How much will this cost?

A: Nothing. There is no "Gold, Silver, or Bronze" plan to sign up for. I won't provide increasing levels of attention dependent upon the amount on the check. This program isn't about me, it's about you. I'm just passing on to you what is public domain, hopefully you'll use it.

Q: Go over that again?

A: (1) twice-a-day, as many days as you can - four, five or six days a week (2) increase your mileage, look, you guys are made of the same muscle and bone as me, you can do it. Find your own sweet spot (3) meet with a group twice a week (4) one tempo run of just four to six miles and (5) one workout of 1200m to 2000m repeats OR 16 to 24 by 150m to 300m (5) don't try to impress anyone, run within yourself (6) relax, the real training doesn't begin until September.