I've been reading their financials and they look seriously suspicious.
Will Elon Musk go the way of Bernie Madoff and Allen Stanford?
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-tesla-stock-is-risky-2017-2
http://suremoneyinvestor.com/2016/06/heres-why-tesla-is-a-giant-ponzi-scheme/
I think "Ponzi Scheme" is a bit much. I do think Elon Musk is a big dreamer and a lot of people are buying into his ideas. Honestly, like solar energy, wind energy, robotics, deep thinking, and big data, I think the costs will outweigh the profits.
Tesla is indeed a risky stock. But Tesla is also an actual company that makes products. The risk is whether or not these products will sell in enough volume and at prices that exceed the costs to produce. There is a real risk that they will not. If they do not, then the stock price will plummet. If they do, then the stock will not collapse - though it might come a little back to earth. But that doesn't mean it is a Ponzi scheme, where there is no real product, and no chance of a sustainable business.
I think you need to research what a Ponzi scheme is. Get back to us.
all the Musk companies are dodgy...
Ok, I only read the first few paragraphs of the article. Could you summarize why the author thinks it is a Ponzi scheme rather than just a risky/bad investment?
not reading all that wrote:
Ok, I only read the first few paragraphs of the article. Could you summarize why the author thinks it is a Ponzi scheme rather than just a risky/bad investment?
He doesn't. But he is shorting Tesla stock so he would like Tesla investors to think it is and start dumping stock, so he can cash in.
Shocking behavior.
It's not a Ponzi scheme because a Ponzi scheme promises profits (Tesla has never made a profit). Musk is really just a crook that likes to live high off of other peoples money by giving them a conscionable investment (bunch of democrats who are investing in renewable energy). After taking a look at the Solar City merger (where he was able to unload a bunch of he and his family's worthless stock by selling it to Tesla shareholders at an inflated price), he is definitely a crook (and he is currently being sued).
not reading all that wrote:
Ok, I only read the first few paragraphs of the article. Could you summarize why the author thinks it is a Ponzi scheme rather than just a risky/bad investment?
Some stocks considered risky bad at some point include: Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Facebook, ...
OP here.
It's write-ups like this that give me cause for concern.
Seriously dodgy accounting practices. Non escrow deposits. Makes me think there is a legitimate liquidity crisis.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-04/tesla-are-you-kidding-me
What many of so called experts does not understand is that Tesla does not only produce cars but they develop a bunch of new technologies that are far ahead in the industry. Autopilot, batteries, electric components to name a few. They already have patents for technologies that other companies in the market does not have and they sell these technologies for profit (BMW for example). And that is not it. When the age of oil comes to an end (and it will happen much sooner than you think since for exmaple Norway and Belgium has already restricted sales of new gasoline powered cars starting with 2025 with many to follow) Tesla will be the leading car maker in the world. In everything. Technology. Experience. Market share. So like you or not Elon Musk is at least two steps ahead.
qw wrote:
What many of so called experts does not understand is that Tesla does not only produce cars but they develop a bunch of new technologies that are far ahead in the industry. Autopilot, batteries, electric components to name a few. They already have patents for technologies that other companies in the market does not have and they sell these technologies for profit (BMW for example). And that is not it. When the age of oil comes to an end (and it will happen much sooner than you think since for exmaple Norway and Belgium has already restricted sales of new gasoline powered cars starting with 2025 with many to follow) Tesla will be the leading car maker in the world. In everything. Technology. Experience. Market share. So like you or not Elon Musk is at least two steps ahead.
Plus, if you want to buy a Tesla, you buy it from Tesla directly, not some sleazy middleman dealer.
Since the date on the first article, 2/28, it's gone up almost 25%. That is a lot of poop for the Shorts. That being said, no it's not a Ponzi scheme, but it's ridiculously risky. What Elio Motors is doing is closer to a Ponzi scheme.
wake up, old timer. where do you live, rural kansas?!solar, wind, robotics, big data are all the way of the world. All of Europe's energy will come from wind and solar in the next 25 years, and robotics is huge. when the price of PV panels tips and is more affordable than oil/coal, deep thinking, that's how progress happens. see 'all of history'you sound like someone who takes no risks, has little fun, and prefers to follow the rest of the herd. i'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply didn't think this one all the way through, but that's generous
Bib Mule Bob wrote:
I think "Ponzi Scheme" is a bit much. I do think Elon Musk is a big dreamer and a lot of people are buying into his ideas. Honestly, like solar energy, wind energy, robotics, deep thinking, and big data, I think the costs will outweigh the profits.
pointer to the obvious wrote:
all the Musk companies are dodgy...
Are you saying the musk companies stink?
How much a stock is rising tells us nothing about its future. At some point in the Netherlands a tulip was worth a house. As long as enough people believe in a value it will rise. Just sell before people stop believing
Plus, if you want to buy a Tesla, you buy it from Tesla directly, not some sleazy middleman dealer.
There was another car company that used to function that way called Saturn.
i wish you knew wrote:
wake up, old timer. where do you live, rural kansas?!
solar, wind, robotics, big data are all the way of the world. All of Europe's energy will come from wind and solar in the next 25 years, and robotics is huge. when the price of PV panels tips and is more affordable than oil/coal,
deep thinking, that's how progress happens. see 'all of history'
you sound like someone who takes no risks, has little fun, and prefers to follow the rest of the herd.
i'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply didn't think this one all the way through, but that's generous
Bib Mule Bob wrote:I think "Ponzi Scheme" is a bit much. I do think Elon Musk is a big dreamer and a lot of people are buying into his ideas. Honestly, like solar energy, wind energy, robotics, deep thinking, and big data, I think the costs will outweigh the profits.
For 40 years, the always imminent "peak oil" crisis has served as a rallying cry for green energy despite steadily increasing global and national oil reserves. At some point oil will likely take a backseat to other technologies but it won't do so until those other technologies are both objectively superior and cheaper. That may be 75 years from now or it might be 150 or more. However, it most certainly will not be 5, 10, or 15 years from now.
Significant improvements in battery/ charging technology or other green energy sources are neither inevitable or without their own environmental/ sustainability hurdles. True progress is not made by "deep thinking". Society changing progress it is made by identifying fundamental technological advantages that can be enjoyed by the world at large. Nitrogen fertilizer, Round-up , fracking, polio, smallpox and HPV vaccines are progress in that they deliver new products that can do something that nothing else can and do it cheaply.
Tesla makes a box with doors, windows, and four wheels that runs off an electric battery. This is not a new idea. Thomas Edison himself designed an electric car around the turn of the 19th century. It didn't catch on then for pretty much the same reasons it hasn't spread beyond urban sophisticates who want a trendy third car now. They have limited range, they are of questionable use in adverse weather and terrain, they are expensive, which makes for small product runs, which makes for troublesome supply chain issues and balky customer service. In short, as of today and the near future, mid class and luxury electric cars are vanity pieces first, vehicles second.
Electric cars do accelerate really well though. That is true. But you know what else accelerates really well and has a tremendous fuel rating. A Japanese sport motorcycle. Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, and Honda all make stylish motorcycles in the 650-1000 cc range that go 0-60 mph in 3-4 secs, get 50-70 mpg, and cost $7,000- $9,000 brand spanking new.
You want a fast but environmentally friendly third vehicle, buy a motorcycle. You want a environmentally friendly way to commute, get a bus/ train pass. You don't like motorcycles or the bus, get a Prius.
You still have the desire to buy a Tesla, good for you The fact remains that Tesla loses tens of thousands on each car it eventually delivers and makes up for that debt by pumping up its stock value with vague promises of future miracle products.
Tesla might deliver breakthrough technology someday but for right now their stock value is no more solid than Dutch tulips, houses in Florida, or Upper Deck baseball cards.
Rural Plains wrote:
i wish you knew wrote:wake up, old timer. where do you live, rural kansas?!
solar, wind, robotics, big data are all the way of the world. All of Europe's energy will come from wind and solar in the next 25 years, and robotics is huge. when the price of PV panels tips and is more affordable than oil/coal,
deep thinking, that's how progress happens. see 'all of history'
you sound like someone who takes no risks, has little fun, and prefers to follow the rest of the herd.
i'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply didn't think this one all the way through, but that's generous
For 40 years, the always imminent "peak oil" crisis has served as a rallying cry for green energy despite steadily increasing global and national oil reserves. At some point oil will likely take a backseat to other technologies but it won't do so until those other technologies are both objectively superior and cheaper. That may be 75 years from now or it might be 150 or more. However, it most certainly will not be 5, 10, or 15 years from now.
Significant improvements in battery/ charging technology or other green energy sources are neither inevitable or without their own environmental/ sustainability hurdles. True progress is not made by "deep thinking". Society changing progress it is made by identifying fundamental technological advantages that can be enjoyed by the world at large. Nitrogen fertilizer, Round-up , fracking, polio, smallpox and HPV vaccines are progress in that they deliver new products that can do something that nothing else can and do it cheaply.
Tesla makes a box with doors, windows, and four wheels that runs off an electric battery. This is not a new idea. Thomas Edison himself designed an electric car around the turn of the 19th century. It didn't catch on then for pretty much the same reasons it hasn't spread beyond urban sophisticates who want a trendy third car now. They have limited range, they are of questionable use in adverse weather and terrain, they are expensive, which makes for small product runs, which makes for troublesome supply chain issues and balky customer service. In short, as of today and the near future, mid class and luxury electric cars are vanity pieces first, vehicles second.
Electric cars do accelerate really well though. That is true. But you know what else accelerates really well and has a tremendous fuel rating. A Japanese sport motorcycle. Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, and Honda all make stylish motorcycles in the 650-1000 cc range that go 0-60 mph in 3-4 secs, get 50-70 mpg, and cost $7,000- $9,000 brand spanking new.
You want a fast but environmentally friendly third vehicle, buy a motorcycle. You want a environmentally friendly way to commute, get a bus/ train pass. You don't like motorcycles or the bus, get a Prius.
You still have the desire to buy a Tesla, good for you The fact remains that Tesla loses tens of thousands on each car it eventually delivers and makes up for that debt by pumping up its stock value with vague promises of future miracle products.
Tesla might deliver breakthrough technology someday but for right now their stock value is no more solid than Dutch tulips, houses in Florida, or Upper Deck baseball cards.
Still banking on my 3 Ken Griffeys to cover my retirement.