Why I hate the stock market. Unprofitable Tesla is now worth more than profitable Ford which sells 28 x as many cars

well there are bubbles somewhere all the time. the only question is when will they burst. perhaps tomorrow or in 10 years. that's tricky thing about them. But when they do the whining is always huge.

Tesla play nicely into the carbon scam. People don't think rationally or logically when it comes to issues of climate. Tesla and others have done a phenomenal job of playing on the fears of the gullible.

Ford and the US automakers are stock flat-liners. They are Grandma stocks. Safe investments with minimal returns and relatively small risks.

Tesla is up and coming. It may or may not survive. But non-gasoline cars are the wave of the future. Tesla is taking an all-in approach to electric and is far ahead of the US automakers which are taking the wait-and-see approach.

Howard Dean wrote:

Tesla play nicely into the carbon scam. People don't think rationally or logically when it comes to issues of climate. Tesla and others have done a phenomenal job of playing on the fears of the gullible.

I think the rationale most use when buying a Tesla is that it is good looking and accelerates well. Oh, and status. The buyers are not likely gullible just wealthier than most.

Walker Red wrote:

Howard Dean wrote:

Tesla play nicely into the carbon scam. People don't think rationally or logically when it comes to issues of climate. Tesla and others have done a phenomenal job of playing on the fears of the gullible.

I think the rationale most use when buying a Tesla is that it is good looking and accelerates well. Oh, and status. The buyers are not likely gullible just wealthier than most.

If you've driven a small electric car, you start thinking of gasoline cars as 19th century technology. I've never driven a Tesla but I'd love to have an electric SUV with good range.

Tesla is also a solar panel and power storage company. So, just looking at cars sold does not tell the entire story.

Tesla is currently overvalued because it has real potential for explosive growth. Ford may end up the Sears to Tesla's Amazon in a decade or so.

Tesla makes the best car on the road right now. They are not worth $125k. But $35k is a price that could build a new major auto manufacturer. Tesla has broken the 300 mile barrier on a single charge with its new S series (still a $95k vehicle, but how much did CD players cost when they were first on the market?). It is positioning its solar company to integrate with the cars so that you can generate all the power you need for your car from your roof. Tesla is also revolutionizing power storage to make commercial solar power able to be a stand alone power source instead of having to rely on a fossil fuel generator to kick in at night.

Ford makes great money selling trucks and SUVs. Ford makes ok money selling muscle cars. Ford does not make a lot of money selling sedans. Ford does not have any EVs ready to compete with Tesla and its HEVs are not ready to compete with Toyota. Ford's future depends too much on having politicians like Trump role back regulations on fuel efficiency. Ford is like Sears hoping that no one ever gets tired of going to the mall to shop. and no one coming into the market with a new way to shop.

I bought a few shares of Tesla about four years ago, and I occasionally buy another. I view Elon Musk as a genius on the order of a Thomas Edison. So I'm not the slightest bit worried by the ups and downs. He doesn't just think big, he thinks huge, and when all the chips finally fall into place--well, I'm holding aces.

rojo-

Tesla's stock is only worth that amount of money b/c people who buy their stock are willing to pay that much for it. It's that simple.

So either the entire marketplace has lost its mind and you're right that Ford > Tesla. Or, the entire market is correct and you're wrong.

If it is situation #1, that should be great for you - you should LOVE the stock market b/c you can get rich off of this. Short Tesla and go long Ford. You will win big time.

If it is situation #2, then you only "hate the stock market" b/c clearly everyone else knows something you don't about how to value automakers ...

Why do you hate the free market?

This is why I love the stock market. So much irrationality makes for great opportunities.

Investment for 2017 - short Tesla.

More stock market fortunes are made selling short than buying long.

Read Confessions of a Stock Operator. It will change your life.

Timing is everything--but 300 bucks a share can turn to a penny stock in 6 months, and TSLA is one for the ages. There is 47 Billion out there just waiting to be harvested. Will it happen this year, or next-or 5 years from now?

No matter the hype, it's hard for me to believe that niche company will turn into the next Honda, Ford, or Volkswagen company, making tens of millions of cars per year in the next decade.

More stock market fortunes are made selling short than buying long.

Read Confessions of a Stock Operator. It will change your life.

Timing is everything--but 300 bucks a share can turn to a penny stock in 6 months, and TSLA is one for the ages. There is 47 Billion out there just waiting to be harvested. Will it happen this year, or next-or 5 years from now?

No matter the hype, it's hard for me to believe that niche company will turn into the next Honda, Ford, or Volkswagen company, making tens of millions of cars per year in the next decade.

Amazon is similarly far overvalued in relation to profits. As they rarely show much of a profit (though cloud services are bringing a good deal in now), Apple has been criticized for years even as it has so often run out 5-10 billion dollar profits per quarter and holds well over $100 billion in cash in tax havens with no idea of what to do with it. They are looking for what they consider a growth company. Tesla with a risk taker as head of the company, who thinks in terms of entirely new industries and quantum leaps, seems to hold out that promise. It won't be long before almost everyone realizes that it is foolish not to have solar, that we are just throwing money away to the power companies. When they realize too that they could essentially have free power for their cars and houses, and that they can have an electric car with better performance than any gasoline-powered car on the market, and those cars are quasi-affordable, then obviously they will make a leap in profitability. But most important is really not whether the company does that; stocks, not counting profits given to shareholders, are just about predicting what other people will do with their money. If other people think something is valuable, it is valuable, regardless of what actually happens to the company in the future.

KudzuRunner wrote:

I bought a few shares of Tesla about four years ago, and I occasionally buy another. I view Elon Musk as a genius on the order of a Thomas Edison. So I'm not the slightest bit worried by the ups and downs. He doesn't just think big, he thinks huge, and when all the chips finally fall into place--well, I'm holding aces.

Elon Musk = Thomas Edison? For what? Starting a payment processing company?

Ford's problems:

1. Stiff competition from other car manufactures. Nearly every car they make has a similar version in GM, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. There's next to no competition for Tesla's electrics.

2. Gotta pay middle men. Not a problem for Tesla.

3. The above 2 lead to small profit margins. Tesla makes high end products that just work; people willingly overpay for that. It's similar to Apple's success.

4. As stated, Tesla has other products coming to market. Power Wall, Solar Roof... could be pie in the sky, could be huge. Time will tell, but because they've had such success with the Model S investors have reason to have faith.

5. The stock price is based on potential future growth. How much bigger do you think Ford can get? Investors don't think it's likely to grown. How much bigger could Tesla get? Maybe huge, if it has the capital and is well managed. A high stock value provides that capital.

Flat Lining wrote:

Tesla is taking an all-in approach to electric and is far ahead of the US automakers which are taking the wait-and-see approach.

That's just not true. The Chevy Bolt is far ahead of anything Tesla has ever made in terms of price/range.

And don't get me started on Uber. On Uber, I sort of get it. But in my mind, rideshare should be a non profit. If computers are driving us around, why should some jerk in CA get the money. Why not let poor people buy cars and have them make a dollar or two a day driving around while they are at work.

Howard Dean wrote:

Tesla play nicely into the carbon scam. People don't think rationally or logically when it comes to issues of climate. Tesla and others have done a phenomenal job of playing on the fears of the gullible.

I wonder how many people who buy green stocks actually fell for the global warming hoax. A lot of them probably know all about Al Gore's scheme to get rich and figured they might as well go along for the ride. I doubt anybody investing in the stock market really gives a shit about the environment. I mean this many people can't still believe in global warming. Can they?

Outstanding post Roy.

Any smart young guy would go work at Tesla not Ford if given the choice.