Colleges with X-Country but no T&F teams - any competing on the roads?

You can but it counts as a track season. Not a problem unless the school adds track or you make money. I've had teams do it and it really helped to keep them in shape all year as well as team building. Depending upon your school you may be able to start a Running Club and use school funding to pay entry fees.

If you want to be competitive in college, do not - I repeat - DO NOT go to a XC only school. Sure you can likely run road races in the winter & spring...but it rarely actually happens since your teammates usually aren't serious about competing at a high level & use the winter to fall off the rails. Also, your coach either doesn't care how the program is doing (since support is so dreadfully low in the first place) & using it to pick up a check (this could be interchangeable with "your coach is just plain bad") OR is actively trying to get the hell out of there before it ends their career. But yes, to answer your question, you can compete on the roads as long as you don't accept the prizes.

Former DI XC Only Head Coach wrote:

If you want to be competitive in college, do not - I repeat - DO NOT go to a XC only school. Sure you can likely run road races in the winter & spring...but it rarely actually happens since your teammates usually aren't serious about competing at a high level & use the winter to fall off the rails. Also, your coach either doesn't care how the program is doing (since support is so dreadfully low in the first place) & using it to pick up a check (this could be interchangeable with "your coach is just plain bad") OR is actively trying to get the hell out of there before it ends their career. But yes, to answer your question, you can compete on the roads as long as you don't accept the prizes.

College runners can accept a little money now. Check out the article below. It mentions Steve Taylor who is the coach of University of Richmond. UR had it's men's track team cut about 5 years ago but still has a men's XC team. They don't give out any men's scholarships though. They are quite active in the off seasons and make the best out of a bad situation.

http://www.runnersworld.com/college/a-new-opportunity-for-college-athletes

[quote]Vladimir wrote:

[quote]Former DI XC Only Head Coach wrote:

I agree with part of what you are saying. In many cases the commitment isn't there. Several of my athletes did little to nothing outside of the season. However this also happens at the end of track as many take the summer off. I do take an issue with the bad mouthing the coach. Having a track program (or any sport is expensive) and the school has to weigh if it is worth it. My current position is both XC & Track. My budget is basically as follows: Bus rental $9000.00; meals on trips $4000; uniforms/equipment $4000; track rental $5000; Athletic Trainers $3500. Then if you take 1/2 of my salary of $40000 (includes XC & track). My two (2) assistants getting paid $12000 each. This is planning on having the minimum number of meets (6) with the minimum number of athletes (24).

That comes to about $70,000 a year. I usually exceed this, but that comes out of my post season allotment. If scholarships are added like in division one & two this number can approach a million dollars. Before we added track I was in a less than ideal situation, but we made it work. We coaches do the best we can with what we have. I also remind my athletes that they are here to get a degree.

STP wrote:

Have you seen the paperwork/process? What a disaster. Depending upon your Compliance Officer it can be undoable.

http://www.runnersworld.com/college/a-new-opportunity-for-college-athletes

Former DI XC Only Head Coach wrote:

If you want to be competitive in college, do not - I repeat - DO NOT go to a XC only school. Sure you can likely run road races in the winter & spring...but it rarely actually happens since your teammates usually aren't serious about competing at a high level & use the winter to fall off the rails. Also, your coach either doesn't care how the program is doing (since support is so dreadfully low in the first place) & using it to pick up a check (this could be interchangeable with "your coach is just plain bad") OR is actively trying to get the hell out of there before it ends their career. But yes, to answer your question, you can compete on the roads as long as you don't accept the prizes.

This isn't entirely accurate. Also if you manage your budget well, which you clearly haven't, you can use XC money to travel the other boys to meets...who wear a uniform and compete just like everyone else.

If you want to be successful, you will find a way. There's plenty of great runners who go or went to schools with no track team.

Give me one example in DI. Let's say success is earning All-American status. No unreasonable standards like setting a collegiate record or winning an NCAA championship. But just being in the top 40 in XC or top 8 on the track at the NCAA DI meet. If you have another metric for "great" let us know and I'm open to this subjective title.

And for the record I always saved money to travel the team to the other five allowable meets we could compete in during the "off season." However, between the rule that we couldn't miss class for "out-of-season" competition, our geographic location & athletes who either weren't any good, specifically came to our school to avoid having DI responsibilities or transferred the moment they realized what "XC Only" really meant in practice, we were lucky to get them to 2 - 3 quality competitions during track season. That is no replacement for a full track season - even for a 10k athlete - not if they want to be great or even competitive. I wasn't about to have our athletes bother with beating up on the local hobby jogging 17 minute men & 20 min women...not that our athletes were that much faster but it would be embarrassing for everyone involved.

Sorry for the knock against hard working DI XC Only coaches who really do care...I was one of them and I'm sure there are others out there. But I also fell into the category of "wanting to get the hell out of there at the first possible opportunity" so my career didn't go down the toilet. I'm assuming there has to be something else keeping a coach in their position if they really are good at what they do & don't desperately want to get out...like family or a great place to live, some other great gig they can do part-time in addition to the coaching gig...which means their coaching career likely isn't one of their top priorities - which there is nothing wrong with. Also, thanks to the poster that pointed out that athletes can now keep some prize money...it's been many moons since that was my concern. Cheers!

I am not sure who the management of budget was addressed, but in every case I have been involved (4 head jobs in almost 30 years) there isn't any real chance to adjust how you use your budget. Bus rental, entry fees, uniforms & equipment, trainers, track rental is money I only see on paper. Meals is dictated by length of trip as well as travel squad. I have to hand in receipts. I am speaking of my current (XC & Track programs) as well as the past when I was at an XC only program. I think the majority of the coaches at the college level are hardworking individuals that are doing a great job for neither game or fortune.

One example: Luis Vargas who ran for Elon with no track program was an All-American in cross. And then he went to NC State for a 5th year and was All -American in track.

However, I can not think of any other example...

Yeah, I thought of Luis Vargas immediately.

And Elon had a guy that had a shot this year, Nick Ciolkowski. He DNF'd at the southeast regional.

It seems to me that the cross country and track & field coaches association should work with the NCAA to make off-season road racing rules easy to comply with. They could make a website like the NCAA has for athlete registration (or extend that one) to let runners post what races they compete in and what prize money they might have won. That way they could monitor total prize money collected and keep track (bad pun) of who is doing what?

STP wrote:

College runners can accept a little money now. Check out the article below. It mentions Steve Taylor who is the coach of University of Richmond. UR had it's men's track team cut about 5 years ago but still has a men's XC team. They don't give out any men's scholarships though. They are quite active in the off seasons and make the best out of a bad situation.

http://www.runnersworld.com/college/a-new-opportunity-for-college-athletes

University of Richmond is what came to mind for me when I saw this thread. Richmond actually has distance for track (800 and up) for men, but I think because they don't field an entire team, they can't participate in NCAA championship meets (not 100% sure about that). Richmond has on their site that their recruits for men's track have these times:

Distance/Target Recruit/Team Standard

800 - 1:58/2:01

1600 - 4:24/4:29

3200 - 9:27/9:45

So, someone who might not get a lot of attention could be recruited (and therefore have an easier time with admission) there. Richmond is one of 62 colleges in the country that provide full financial need, so if your family income is less than $125,000, you would get a very good financial deal there.

I think the number is twelve individuals participating in six meets

It doesn't matter what events. Look at Iona who only has distance runners.