Breaking: Science of Sport calls for Nike Vaporfly Elite to be banned

[quote]rojo wrote:

The other thought I had was, "If their technology is so much better than everyone else's , can someone please explain to me why the last 5 men's world records have been set by someone wearing adidas?"

2:04:26 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia September 30, 2007- adidas

2:03:59 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia September 28, 2008 - adidas

2:03:38 Patrick Makau Kenya September 25, 2011 -adidas

2:03:23 Wilson Kipsang Kenya September 29, 2013 -adidas

2:02:57 Dennis Kimetto Kenya September 28, 2014 - adidas

Nobody has broken 2:04:26 in Nike!

The shoes won the Gold Medal, Silver Medal, and Bronze Medal in the 2016 Olympic Marathon

Do you think it is just a coincidence?

This is obvious cheating by Nike (and Alberto and Galen)…again.

I can see Kara is crying right now.

That is not a big surprise.

Spotter of morans wrote:

Evil Empire Nike's plan is working. They will sell tons of these to fools who think it will make them faster. Good job, LetsRun morans for freely marketing this crap.

Science of Sport guys are also morans.

Moron not Moran you imbecile

putting the semen in semenya wrote:

What happens in Caster Semenya competes in these new fangled shoes? Does her 3k time drop below 8? Would we need a 4th category in which to compete? Device Transgender aided?

Is the 3rd category paralympics? Because somewhere there is a category Drugs & Transgender aided. Perhaps your new category is 5th.

take my money nike wrote:

The more calls there are for banning these, the more Nike will sell.

I know, I hate Nike but if these shoes somehow help an old fart like me run faster. I'm buying them.

actual skills wrote:

[quote]rojo wrote:

The other thought I had was, "If their technology is so much better than everyone else's , can someone please explain to me why the last 5 men's world records have been set by someone wearing adidas?"

2:04:26 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia September 30, 2007- adidas

2:03:59 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia September 28, 2008 - adidas

2:03:38 Patrick Makau Kenya September 25, 2011 -adidas

2:03:23 Wilson Kipsang Kenya September 29, 2013 -adidas

2:02:57 Dennis Kimetto Kenya September 28, 2014 - adidas

Nobody has broken 2:04:26 in Nike!

Bekele 2:03.04 in Berlin, Nike.

It wasn't a world record, buddy.

Somebody, can correct me but didn't Jos Hermens claim that faster Marathon times were possible it was just that modern shoes were too soft. Seems like these shoes have gone in the Hoka direction not the minimalist trend.

Plusses and minuses wrote:

Basically, I think there are two historical cases in play: The Pistorius advantage, which draws a direct line to this, and the Speedo LZR Racer swimsuit and subsequent suits, which illustrate a couple of conceptual issues....

Historically, Dr. Tucker should know that CAS found the Pistorius "advantage" to be nonexistent on the whole.

Just like they determined that Semenya's high T levels give her no advantage? CAS is becoming famous for being completely clueless.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

take my money nike wrote:

The more calls there are for banning these, the more Nike will sell.

I know, I hate Nike but if these shoes somehow help an old fart like me run faster. I'm buying them.

If a 4% improvement in running economy leads to ~ 2% actual performance improvement in marathon time…that would be about 2.5 minutes for Eliud Kipchoge.

That would be a lot of time off his marathon PR.

That claim would also probably be total bullsh*t.

Nike = total bullshit for $250.00

Oh yeah baby

Science of Sport is stupid. All they did was help boost Nike sales. Note to supposedly science people: a claimed 4% increase in "efficiency" is nothing at all like a real-world 4% decrease in time. It's totally bogus: does anyone even know what "efficiency" means from an objective measurement? No. It has no meaning whatsoever. You can define efficiency any way you want. Nike knows this: it's completely ambiguous, but sounds fantastic.

This is just like a placebo. If I can get you to believe that you will run faster in this shoe, the game is won, whether you run faster or not. If you don't run faster, believers will find a way to explain the lesser performance through other issues. This has all been demonstrated many times in many different tests. If you do run faster, then believers have had their enthusiasm justified.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

take my money nike wrote:

The more calls there are for banning these, the more Nike will sell.

I know, I hate Nike but if these shoes somehow help an old fart like me run faster. I'm buying them.

Forget these cons. Just go buy Hokas and get faster like the rest of us relics.

actual skills wrote:

[quote]rojo wrote:

The other thought I had was, "If their technology is so much better than everyone else's , can someone please explain to me why the last 5 men's world records have been set by someone wearing adidas?"

2:04:26 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia September 30, 2007- adidas

2:03:59 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia September 28, 2008 - adidas

2:03:38 Patrick Makau Kenya September 25, 2011 -adidas

2:03:23 Wilson Kipsang Kenya September 29, 2013 -adidas

2:02:57 Dennis Kimetto Kenya September 28, 2014 - adidas

Except for Kipchoge and Bekele. Whoops!

Nobody has broken 2:04:26 in Nike!

PROPULSION wrote:

Customised spring plates for individuals is not a level playing field as they are not freely available to all athletes.

This is THE issue. Some pros will have fine tuned shoes for their weight, etc...

The rest of us will get something that is generic tuned for the "average" runner. Like 9:00 min/mile pace and 200 lbs. It won't work as well.

I'm not buying them.

Lelesa and Desisa are different people.

two tiered market wrote:

PROPULSION wrote:

Customised spring plates for individuals is not a level playing field as they are not freely available to all athletes.

This is THE issue. Some pros will have fine tuned shoes for their weight, etc...

The rest of us will get something that is generic tuned for the "average" runner. Like 9:00 min/mile pace and 200 lbs. It won't work as well.

I'm not buying them.

Nonsense. Cyclists have had heat moldable carbon fibre shoes for years that they can remold themselves.

PROPULSION wrote:

"Biomechanical and metabolic effects of a leaf spring structured midsole in heel–toe running"

Results: The leaf spring structured midsole shoe significantly increased the anterior shift of the foot by 8 ± 4 mm (p = 0.001) during stance leading to an increased stride length (1%; p = 0.044), while oxygen cost (2%; p = 0.031) and stride rate (1%; p = 0.039) were significantly reduced compared to the reference shoe.

Make your own judgement, but make it based on facts.

I wouldn't consider Nike's claims facts. The study is interesting but aside from the anterior shift thing, the p-values are marginal and oddly similar to each other.

rojo wrote:

It's funny as just the other day I was thinking about this topic and I thought to myself, "If this ends up with people calling for the shoes to be banned, I wonder if that's exactly what Nike was looking for. To get the idea out there that their technology is superior is worth a ton - do they really care about the WR or medals?"

The other thought I had was, "If their technology is so much better than everyone else's , can someone please explain to me why the last 5 men's world records have been set by someone wearing adidas?"

2:04:26 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia September 30, 2007- adidas

2:03:59 Haile Gebrselassie Ethiopia September 28, 2008 - adidas

2:03:38 Patrick Makau Kenya September 25, 2011 -adidas

2:03:23 Wilson Kipsang Kenya September 29, 2013 -adidas

2:02:57 Dennis Kimetto Kenya September 28, 2014 - adidas

Maybe that fact leads to my initial thought?

interesting, i'm for banning nike out of general principle, but not a shoe design, sets a stupid precedent, such as the above example, adidas shoes might be too fast so maybe ban them too, ... then make more rules, more enforcement, what a waste of time.

oh, here is an idea for someone to play with.

spray on liquid skin on the bottom of your foot, then put on a coat of rubber.

you are talking an ounce or two.

certainly you are going to have to play with the formulations and application.

you can put on a third layer with sandpaper / grit

all of which might never work, but once in a while i'd wrap my feet like a boxer wraps his fist and ran repeat miles on the saw dust.

the feeling on the feet is incredible. except some wood chips stuck between the toes..