3x400 w/ 3 min rest; what can I do for 800?

2:27 at the fastest

around 2:30 give or take a few seconds depending on various factors not listed

why don't you just run an 800 and find out?

Dumbas: Thanks for the estimate man, under 2:30 is where I'm looking to go.

Average runner: Thanks for your input as well friend. If it helps, conditions were not ideal (some strong wind at times, in trainers and the workout was done amidst an intense training week which I realize now has been misguided; I definitely need more easy distance days/tempos for aerobic endurance/strength. Would be grateful if you could list the factors you had in mind, would gladly elaborate on them.

Just wow: I hate to do it, but I have a TT against a friend soon and just wanted an estimate so I wouldn't seriously f$@k my pacing up

Sorry for long reply and relatively boring thread. Appreciate the help/pity for the hobby jogger guys :D

Hey, I'm a lot slower than you, so I'm looking up to you, not down ; ). I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but based on what you've said, I think it's pretty obvious that 2:30 is going to be a long shot. Why do I say that? Three minutes between 400's is a LONG recovery, and if those 400's were tough, I'm not sure you can sustain that pace for a full 800. But if sub 2:30 is your goal, go for it! I'd aim to go out in 73 and try to hold on! What's the worst that can happen (besides a pulled hammy and humiliation!). How soon is the TT? Hopefully you can get a little rest on those beat up legs of yours before you perform.

3 minutes is not a lot of rest at all for 400m reps @ about 800m pace. That's actually pretty short rest. I'd say that they're a pretty good predictor for 800m pace.

Other factors I had in mind were what kind of mileage have you done in the past / leading up to this

and what is your 400m PR?

Like I said, I'm no expert on this. It just sounds like a bit of a stretch to break 2:30 to me, unless he's more of a long distance guy than a mid-d guy. I hope he proves me wrong!

just wow:

haha thanks man, no negative vibe detected anyway. Thanks for your advice on pacing; that seems like a sensible pace to go out on I agree. The TT is in 7 days so I'm just looking to probably run easy and do some strides, maybe a session of 200, 300 reps with full recovery at my goal pace but that's about it; and 2 days totally off in that time period so I can give my poor legs a break lol!

Average runner:

1) mileage: You won't like the answers to these questions lol

So far my mileage has definitely not been optimal. 15 mpw on average or less and I've been running since June of 2016 I believe. Most of it has been easy running with the intermittent tempo run and interval workout that has been sprinkled in in a very non-structured unsystematic and reckless way; have never done a proper periodized plan before :/.

TLDR: 15 miles on average or less; a bit shoddy :(, planning on doing 8-10 weeks of nice base training starting April (maybe build up to 25-30 mpw and moving onto workouts gradually from there however.

2) 400m PR is officially 67 now but I know I can beat that; I went through 200m in just under 34 in my 600m time trial and honestly felt quite relaxed, I could have negative split the last 200 and beat my official pr from there if I went all out I believe. I would say I'm in 64-65 second 400m shape.

Thanks for the help guys :D

And 3 minute rest is like a 400 m slow jog between reps. That's a pretty good amount of time to recover.

Get the rest, get some racing flats or spikes and do some strides in them this week, get your psyche in the right, place (convince yourself you've got this), get a good adrenaline rush going during warm-up, coffee or some other stimulant may help with this (mouthwash?). Focus on holding back a little during the 1st 400, controlled, relaxed, and smooth. The adrenaline should keep your pace where it needs to be. Hopefully you'll hit about 73 and feel like you've got a lot left in the tank. At that point start to very gradually hit the acceleration pedal steadily (which probably will be maintaining pace, in reality) all the way to the finish, and bust out anything you've got left in the final 50. That's what I'd do.

Yeah typically the longer the rep at 800m pace, the longer the rest.

200s have like 1-2min rest

300s have 1.5-3min rest

etc etc with 600s @ 800m pace having as much as 10+ minute rest. Depends on the goal of the workout.

I ran 1:52 last year and I would have been hard pressed to run 3x400m @ 56. I probably could have managed it but it would have been tough.

And your 400m speed isn't bad. If your goal is sub 2:30 then I agree with the other poster about trying to go out through 400m in 73 seconds. The key for this is not to run the first 200m too fast. That's the easiest mistake to make in the 800m, (in my opinion). You're going to want to be around 36 for the first 200m, no faster than 35, and try to come through 400m pretty evenly and smoothly. Then you just gotta stay engaged and push from 400-600 and hopefully come through 600m in close to 1:49-1:51. Then its just a sprint for home

sounds like great advice guys, I really appreciate your help and time.

Will update with the result, not that it's gonna be exciting or anything -___- but if curious in any case haha

I find it hard to believe. If you are capable of an 800 in 1:52, you are doing two back-to-back 56's with no rest between them at all, so obviously taking a 3 minute break between the 56's is easily achieved. How hard could it be to pump out another 56 after that if you've got another 3 minute recovery? If you're struggling to hit the pace goal on the 3rd one, like Aos, I'd be concerned. It just seems to me like you should be able to go at least a couple seconds faster per 400 in that workout than your actual 800 race pace. If he hit 73,73,73, I think that would be more predictable of success.

Another way of looking at it. A 1:46 guy can probably go 47 for 400. It shouldn't be that hard for him to run a 53, rest 3 minutes, then run another 53. I can't imagine that with another 3 minutes rest after that, he wouldn't have enough left in the tank to go around 50 flat on the final one.

The other thing is that Aos has minimal aerobic base. Not sure how that would factor in his case.

Another one sorry wrote:

sounds like great advice guys, I really appreciate your help and time.

Will update with the result, not that it's gonna be exciting or anything -___- but if curious in any case haha

I'm actually a bit excited to see if you can do it. Looking forward to hearing back! I think you can do it if you play your cards right.

3min rest isn't long. I know I could hit it for two reps easily. And I said I could probably manage it for the third rep but that would be a very tough workout. I've done 55, 55, 57 when I was in 1:55 shape but that was with 8min rest. And my last really hard workout before 1:52 was 2 sets of 2x400m. 5min between reps and 12min between sets. I ran 55, 54, 53, 54. That was also insanely difficult. I think you're getting the atmosphere of racing confused with practice. Things are harder in practice for most people. Also, I'm sure there is a lot of 1:46ish 800m guys who can't run a 47.

106 x 1.38 = 146

Forget everything but the 600. An all-out 600 is the real indicator. Multiply by 1.38 for the slowest likely result.

interesting discussion above there.

And thanks for the other predictor bag wigins, never have seen a specific conversion factor used for estimating 800m times from 600m time trials, I always just assumed whatever you ran for 600m, you'd project that pace out to 800 and add 3 or 4 seconds, but this is really cool.

According to that estimate I'm already at 2:26-2:29! Let's hope that works for me haha!

Just wow... wrote:

Another one sorry wrote:

sounds like great advice guys, I really appreciate your help and time.

Will update with the result, not that it's gonna be exciting or anything -___- but if curious in any case haha

I'm actually a bit excited to see if you can do it. Looking forward to hearing back! I think you can do it if you play your cards right.

Appreciate the encouragement man, will do my best.

Much thanks to everyone for the help!

PS

amazed at the lack of trolling LOL, I've seen some of these threads before and usually at least 1 or 2 people will say "go out in 49 and see what happens" or 1:50 or bust, baby!" haha!

We had to move the time trial to today unfortunately

Ended up running 2:29.78 but that's 3 days after that workout I posted here.

My pacing was pretty poor however :(

71 flat, 78...yikes, think I ran the first 200 in about 34:XX

Guess I went out a bit too hard; was paying for it pretty badly; was getting spanked at around 500; the pain was getting really bad and after 600 it was absolutely excruciating lol.

Oh and my friend wrecked me to pieces; he ran 2:20 although he was a really good runner back in high school and is just out of shape and getting back into it.

Really happy with the time ^-_^, you guys think I could run it faster if I was more rested up? Or is 3 days plenty sufficient to recover from a few days of hard workouts like the ones above?