1 Hr Ironman Swim

i think you can do it.

I haven't competed for a long time, so I am rusty on my swim workouts...but I think the wetsuit and drafting are the big advantages. Because I wasn't a very good swimmer, anytime I got to wear the wetsuit I was much better....Hawaii no wetsuit = 1:06 for me + hard to draft in such a big race - got stuck too far back. but at Buffalo spring 1/2 went 26 something because I could wear my wetsuit and I drafted big time.

get behind someone faster, but don't touch their feet or they will try to lose you...instead feel the bubbles and even look up with you head out of the water a lot so as not to lose track of them (directionally) or get too close. I would actually practice sight swimming - with my head above water for repeats in practice so that this become easier and more natural. you don't have to do the whole race this way, but ever 50 meters or so look up again for a few stokes. the bubble track is the key...once you realize that you can feel the bubble off the feet of the person in front of you- you can stay in their slip steam (pretty close) without them noticing you = you can fast with very little effort. you'll be tempted to want to pass them because the effort is so low, but the second you move out of their draft you will see how hard it really is - so just tuck and enjoy the ride.

I think you have it in you. However, your swim time should be the least of your concerns. You should be thinking about your energy while swimming, specifically, how to use as little as possible.

Hmm...It depends on how much speed you are getting on your flip turns. I know people who do a lot faster in a 25 yrd pool than in open water because they get their speed off of the wall.

While you have the advantage of the draft and the wetsuit, you have the disadvantage of having to site. unless you are terrible at turns, i think the best you can 1:30.

But i could be completely off base here and i would like to know the outcome.

Thanks for all the advice. Drafting has been a tricky business for me, I've never got a consistent swim draft in a triathlon/ open water event so I will make that a priority next race. My flip turns are decent but I don't dolphin kick off the wall so I think suit + elev. drop + potential draft should yield some speed increase.

In the past, if I could swim 800 yards in 12 minutes in the pool then I could also do half-mile/ 800 meter in open water with a suit in 12 minutes. I'm hoping drop in elevation will make 1:25/ 100 y pace a lot more sustainable and I have definitely noticed a difference dropping down in elevation before.

I've got some achilles issues to work through before I tackle a full IM but I plan to do a 1 hour pool swim sometime in May and a 2 mile open water swim in July.

I have a bucket list goal to break 10 hours in an Ironman and then never ever do a triathlon or marathon again. I figure if I can get to the point where a 59:xx minute swim leg doesn't waste me, then a 5:10 bike (21.8 mph) , and a 3:30 marathon (8 minute miles) will leave me a cushion for relaxed transitions and maybe a bathroom break during the run.

I've also heard that swimming a 59 minute IM swim leg makes the swim, T1, and early bike much, much less hectic so I'm willing to put some effort into improving my swimming.

I've lived/trained at both sea level and altitude. I wouldn't sweat your flip turns at altitude, they're just always going to be harder (much tougher to hold your breathe with less O2).

First thing is I would start training more like a swimmer. Your swim workouts should be on a send off interval (like 100s on 1:30, meaning you always leave on the 1:30 regardless of when you finish the previous interval). I wouldn't continue to do intervals with a set amount of rest. You need to learn to swim tired.

So for a goal-type workout for breaking an hour, I would look at something like 20-24 x 100yd on 1:30, looking to hit 1:15-18 or so per 100. If you can do this type of workout (and with the fitness from your other bike/run training) I would think you'll be comfortable to be under 1:00 (especially considering the boosts from wetsuit, drafting, and going to sea level).

One of the keys to open water swimming at a higher level (and breaking an hour is getting there) is the ability to cover gaps/change speeds. Much like in bike racing, it helps to have the ability to sprint up to (or away from) a pack. With this in mind keep up the sprint work.

I'm sure other have recommended masters groups, but they are an obvious place to get people to push you to better workouts. I know some groups can be a little too other stroke or technique focused and not perfectly ideal for triathlon-specific training, but swimming with faster people will make you faster.

How much yardage are you swimming a week?

moanswers wrote:

Hmm...It depends on how much speed you are getting on your flip turns. I know people who do a lot faster in a 25 yrd pool than in open water because they get their speed off of the wall.

This is pretty much every swimmer (unless you're doing some kind of really terrible open turn, but most people like that are very slow too). The fastest you're ever swimming in the pool is your first few meters off the wall.

Compare the 50m short course world record to the 50m long course (20.26 vs 20.91). The only difference there is a turn. This is also true if you look at distance races.

People that have precipitous drop off in performance (compared to their peers) from the pool to open water is usually because of poor sighting and drafting technique.

SEDave wrote:

First thing is I would start training more like a swimmer. Your swim workouts should be on a send off interval (like 100s on 1:30, meaning you always leave on the 1:30 regardless of when you finish the previous interval). I wouldn't continue to do intervals with a set amount of rest. You need to learn to swim tired.

So for a goal-type workout for breaking an hour, I would look at something like 20-24 x 100yd on 1:30, looking to hit 1:15-18 or so per 100. If you can do this type of workout (and with the fitness from your other bike/run training) I would think you'll be comfortable to be under 1:00 (especially considering the boosts from wetsuit, drafting, and going to sea level).

How much yardage are you swimming a week?

Thanks for the advice.

I actually do swim all my intervals on set send off time. However, I swim my 100s on the 1:40 hitting 1:18-1:19 per interval and treat that set as more of a strength/ functional form workout rather than a base builder. I've previously relied on the 8-10 x200 set for a lactate threshold workout and done 8x200 leaving on 3:05 and 10x200 leaving on 3:10 with all swim intervals in 2:46-2:48.

Eventually, I'd like to get down to 10x200 leaving on 3:00 with all intervals under 2:45. I'll definitely start working in the shorter rest 100s though and can see how those workouts should improve swimming max VO2.

I've been swimming 4-5 days a week for the last three months and average around 9000 yards a week. I probably should add some more technique work but like getting in and out of pool quickly without dragging around a lot of gear.

I don't think that 10 x 200 on 3:00 going 2:45 is going to get you to where you're safely under 1:00 in a race, I think I would want 2:40s at least. That said, as a more "novice" swimmer (not meant as an insult just recognizing you don't have a huge swim background), I would focus more on 100s (though still throwing in some 200s isn't bad). 200s can be tough to pace, especially if you're alone. 100s are the bread and butter of swim workouts, like the 400s of track. And you can get a variety of workouts from them just by altering the send off. Ladders are always good too (100,200,300,400,400,300,200,100, etc.), and really help you try to dial in the pace.

I think you'll need more volume. 9K yards just isn't that much (esp. on 4-5 swims). I would look to do a minimum of 3K every time you're in the pool (probably about an hour or so?). If you had a strong swim background (age group and or college), I think you could get away with that kind of lower yardage, but as a learn to swim adult who has a real goal for the swim leg (not just finish the swim and not drown like many an IM competitor), I think you need more base. And honestly, while not the most fun, swim training is about the best bang for the buck you can get as far as aerobic/anaerobic conditioning goes. More swim training will likely lead to better fitness for the other two legs.

Where you do the swim makes a big difference. Large ocean swells can really slow you down if you're not used to them. If you train in them, they're much more manageable.

I've always thought the wetsuit boost just about evens out with the turns boost in a 50m pool.

You're putting an awful lot of thought and work into something that is going to take less than 10 per cent of your anticipated race time. If you can swim sub 1 hr, great, but 5:10 bike splits and 3:30 run splits don't exactly grow on trees, especially if you've burned too many matches on the swim.

Agreed, I'm about the speed of OP (base pool workout pace for moderate sets is 1;30/100y intervals)

Swimming is the least of my problems in a full or 70.3

Find some feet, draft, and relax. It's a long day. If you want 5 minutes to make your race meet some arbitrary time goal, find it on the bike.

Your swim workout sounds adequate for your goals

Maybe you're just not that fast..Who cares

Eg fast lane in some masters classes is 1:10/100y, 1:20/100y next lowest, and sounds like you're somewhere between the 1:30 and 1:40 lane. Who cares

Burning a match on the swim leg in a full is a terrible idea