Marathon training at 4 days / week

I would try a standard program like Pfitzinger's and take the "easy" days completely off. I think a sub-3 hour marathon this year may be out of reach ... your recent PBs would predict something over three hours, even with proper marathon training. It's certainly possible within the next few years, but as you get into your late 40s, it's gonna get increasingly challenging.

I have always been a low-mileage runner, myself. When I was 43, I averaged only 44 miles per week (5 to 6 days a week) for four months leading up to a 2:56:03. With the low mileage, though, that was "soft" considering my shorter races at the time (17:32 5K, and 1:22 half marathon).

By comparison, last year, at age 57, I tried a 3-day-a-week plan, averaging barely 20 miles per week for the four months before the marathon. But I was able to schedule four long runs of 18 to 23 miles, and ran 3:25:27 on race day.

By further comparison, prior to my PR marathon at age 23, I averaged 42 miles per week for four months prior to running 2:40:30.

Thanks. Interesting to compare your training with mine. I have only run for two years (18 months before the PBs), so I hope I haven't plateaued yet. And I think I am in better shape now than last year, my last workout was 3x2M at 5:40.

I had a quick look at Pfitzinger, and I think I can handle the workload if I skip the recovery runs and the "General aerobic" runs, but I am not quite sure I will be able to follow the progression in the program, at least not the long runs, which seem to be the toughest. What kind of training did you do to run 2:40 on 42 mpw? That sounds quite impressive.

Correction: the workout was 3x2M at 6:12 (I'm used to the metric system, and maths is obvously not my strong side).

Running fast and slow wrote:

What kind of training did you do to run 2:40 on 42 mpw? That sounds quite impressive.

That 42 mpw figure is a little misleading. My training was very unconventional ... the 2:40 marathon was my third marathon in 12 weeks, so that average includes the "tapering" and "recovery" from the two previous marathons.

During the 16 weeks before the 2:40:30, I had a high mileage week of 72 miles (116k), and had two other weeks over 60 (100k), and two weeks at 54 miles (87k).

Besides the two marathons, I had five long runs over 15 miles (24k). The rest of the training was primarily progression runs of 10 miles or less.

More critical, perhaps, was the 16-week block of training prior to those three marathons in the fall. Starting with a 3-plus-hour spring marathon (after very minimal winter running), I averaged 48 miles per week, with three 18-mile long runs (30k), one 22-mile long run and four summer races (27:05 8k, 16:47 5k, 34:12 10k, 1:13:50 20k). Training included a few track workouts (what we would call VO2max workouts today -- 800m and 1600m repeats), steep hill repeats, and progression runs.

Keep in mind I was a 22-23 year-old kid at the time! The previous autumn I had run a 3:15 first marathon, and 2:52 a month or so after that.

Your 2-mile repeat workout does show that you're still improving. Take a look at Pfitzinger's lower-mileage plans (I still use his plans from 1999, so I'm not sure about his recent schedules). The long-run progression might not be so daunting? But I strongly believe that ESPECIALLY with over-all low mileage, the long runs are key (up to 50 percent of my overall mileage). Others disagree, citing injury risks, among other concerns. In the end, you are an experiment of one.

Good luck!

Allen1959 wrote:

Keep in mind I was a 22-23 year-old kid at the time! The previous autumn I had run a 3:15 first marathon, and 2:52 a month or so after that.

Well, when I was 23 I was a skinnyfat humanities major with no training background, so I have no idea how much my trainability has deteriorated over time. Which I guess is a good thing, now I feel I am in the best shape of my life ...

why not write your own plan?

look at a bunch of the common/popular ones - Higdon, Pfitz, Daniels, etc...

they all have common elements.. as one posted above, just eliminate some of the easy days

maybe structure your weeks like this:

2 general aerobic days; by the end of the summer, one of these should be 8-10 miles; occasionally use one of these for goal pace practice as you get close to the race date

1 long run; turn some of these into progression or fast-finish long runs

1 day of fast work; either a tempo run, speed work, or goal pace practice

way too soon to set a goal. get into your training and plan on running a long race, 15k to 30k, during training and let the result suggest your marathon goal

if you want to go sub-3:00, you probably need to get your 10k under 38 and your half marathon time under 1:26

if you like doing speed work, consider the Furman/First 3-runs per week plan.... gets a lot of deserved criticism, but if you like doing hard workouts and go into it with a good fitness base, it can lead to decent results

That seems like sound advice. However, what I am looking for, is someone who can say "Listen, son, if you do exactly this for the coming 26 weeks, you will run a 2.58 marathon". But I guess that's asking a wee bit too much..

In his book McMillan has 4 day a week plans you could use with a good mix of workouts. Might cost you 10-20 bucks. If you have more money to spend why not just buy a customized training program from McMillan, Daniels, or whatever system you like. Will cost 100-200 bucks but you'll get something that tells you exactly what to do for 12-24 weeks or however long you like. You ask on here you'll dozen different suggests, all good but you have to figure out what system or coach style will work best for you.

Tues - 10 times a mile @ ---- with 3 min recovery

Thursday -15 miles @ with some tempo, progression

Saturday - 6 miles

Sunday - 20 miles

2:58 mar = 6:47 a mile

How many 6:47 miles or faster are you running right now per week?

A friend of mine cracked the top 10 at Boston once running 3 or 4 days a week. He did a 20 on weekends, then two or three 10s during the week. The 20 was usually around 6:00 pace but really that depended on how fast the group he was running with was going. The 10s were usually 10 or so seconds per mile off of his marathon pace. Sometimes, in a four day week, he'd do a really hard 5 in place of one of the 10s.

If you look at marathon training prior to WWII and shortly there after, you see a lot of 4 day a week schedules because guys had to work and it was commonly believed that running was too strenuous to do every day. You might see stuff like 20-10-10-5, or 20-15-10-5. There was a guy in New England called Tony Medieros who worked two full time jobs. The only day when he had time to run was Sunday so he did a 20 then and that was it. He ran in the 2:40s off of that.

fred wrote:

2:58 mar = 6:47 a mile

How many 6:47 miles or faster are you running right now per week?

The exact answer is six.

Here's a radical approach.

Run 10 times a mile @ 6:45 every second day for a month, and see what happens.

Here's the best program for you:

Every other day run 10-12 miles and 14-18 when it's a weekend day. Run the last 3-4 miles of every run at hmp to 10kp. Race once a month.

Enjoy

When I was in my mid 40s, I went 6 months running 2 days a week but averaging 15 miles per run. About 3 months in, I was thinking about running a marathon but decided to do a 30k instead. I ran 2:06 (6:45 pace). A few guys I was running near in races went under 3 hours in a marathon that weekend. I felt so bad for a couple hours after the 30k that I decided not to do a marathon so don't know how I would hold up for another 12k.

I like the 4 day plan Fred first posted. That would get you in great shape if you could handle it. The long run would have to be comfortable though about a minute per mile slower than marathon pace or you couldn't recover for Tuesday.

Hi

This is a training plan from a danish website called Rekordjagt. The program has worked really well for older people who wants to run around 3 hours for the marathon. Older runners maybe needs a easy week now and then.

If you want to ask him any questions, go to his website rekordjagt.dk. He has coached eliterunners an hobbyjoggers for many years. All of his programs is based on the funnel philosophy.

Træningspas

Løbetempo i min pr. km

Restitutionsture

5:00-5:30

Lang tur = long run

4:45-5:00

Marathontempo

4:10.4:25

Tempoture = tempo runs

3:55-4:10

Tempointervaller mellem 3min-12min

3:45-3:55

Intervaller mellem 1000m-3000m

3:25-3:45

Intervaller mellem 400m-1000m

3:10-3:25

Let løb = easy run

Uge

Træningspas #1

Træningspas #2

Træningspas #3

1

Intervaller: 8-10 x 500m

Tempo: 4 x 5min

Let: 15km let løb

2

Intervaller: 6 x 800m

Tempo: 3 x 8min

Let: 18km let løb

3

Intervaller: 10-12 x 400m

Tempo: 8 x 3min

Let: 21km let løb

4

Intervaller: 6 x 1000m

Tempo: 12 min “ud” 10min “hjem”

Let: 15km let løb

5

Intervaller: 2 x 1500m + 3 x 1000m

Tempo: 3 x 10min

Marathon: 20km let løb inkl. 15-20min i marathontempo

6

Intervaller: 600-800-1000-1200-1200-1000-800-600

Tempo: 25-30min tempoløb

Marathon: 25km let løb inkl. 15-20min i marathontempo

7

Intervaller: 2 x 2000m + 3 x 1000m + 4 x 500m

Tempo: 6 x 5min

Marathon: 28-30km let løb

8

Intervaller: 8 x 1000m

Tempo: 15min “ud” – 14min “hjem”

Marathon: 18km let løb inkl. 2 x 8min i marathontempo

9

Intervaller: 4 x 1500m

Tempo: 10 x 3min

Marathon: 22km tur, de sidste 7km i marathontempo

10

Test: 6km testløb (løb 95 % af hvad du kan)

Tempo: 12min – 10min – 8 min

Intervaller: 3 x 5km i marathontempo inkl. 15min opv + afj.

11

Intervaller: 4 x 2000m

Tempo: 30-35min tempoløb

Marathon: 26km lang tur inkl. 2 x 20min i marathontempo

12

Fartleg: 60min med ryk á 3-5min ialt 30min i højt tempo

Tempo: 3 x 12min

Intervaller: 30min let løb + 3 x 4km i marathontempo

13

Intervaller: 1 x 3000m 2 x 2000m + 3 x 1000m

Tempo: 5 x 8min

Marathon: 10km let løb + 8km i marathontempo + 4 x 1000m i 5-10sek hurtigere end marathontempo

14

Intervaller: 3 x 3000m

Tempo: 6min – 8min – 12min – 8min – 6min

Intervaller: 3 x 7km i marathontempo inkl. 15min opv + afj.

15

Intervaller: 5 x 2000m

Tempo: 40min tempoløb

Marathon: 30-32km lang tur, de sidste 5-7km i marathontempo

16

Intervaller: 1 x 5000m + 2 x 3000m

Tempo: 3 x 15min

Intervaller: 3 x 8km (første 8 + 5-10sek, anden 8 lig marathontempo, tredje 8 – 5-10sek)

17

Intervaller: 2 x 2000m + 3 x 1000m

Tempo: 5 x 7min

Marathon: 22-24km lang tur, sidste 5-6km i 5sek hurtigere end marathontempo

18

Intervaller: 3 x 1500m

Tempo: 12min “ud” – 11min “hjem”

Intervaller: 18km let løb inkl. 2 x 12min i marathontempo

19

Intervaller: 2 x 1000m + 4 x 500m

Tempo: 25min tempoløb

Marathon: 15km let løb inkl. 10-15min i marathontempo

20

Intervaller: 8 x 500m Marathon tempo

Try the MapMyRun Trainer app. Enter when your race is, when your long run is and how many days you want to run, and your experience level and let it generate a plan.

Review it, see if you like it. If not, try again with different inputs and see if you like that result better.

I've used it for 2 marathons in the past and am using it currently for another one on 3/4.

good luck

don

Thank you, LRC. I don't think I'll try all your advices, at least not at once. I think I will try to do something like this. I have a 10k in April that I want to prepare for, so until then a week will look like this:

Tuesday: 8-10m aerobic or 6-8 x 1k intervals

Wednesday or Thursday: 6-8m aerobic

Friday: 3x2m intervals or 5-6m tempo

Sunday: 12m long run (easy)

After that, I will put more effort into the long run (longer and faster), and do just one workout / week. And keep my fingers crossed .